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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-07-2014, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
 
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Trimming Wings

Hi Everyone
I was contemplating trimming my birds wings. When a expert on parrots told me not to that once they've experienced flying this could stress them out enough to cause them to pluck their feathers. Has anyone experienced this?
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-07-2014, 01:24 PM


 
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I have never heard anybody that has had that problem, although I'm sure it could happen. I think pet birds are so used to just staying in the same small area (house) and not getting to fly long distances that they wouldn't really notice much of a difference.



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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-07-2014, 01:29 PM


 
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I'm sure that it will stress them severely.
Birds are designed to fly, it makes me sad when people give their birds a total wing clip.
Please don't do it!

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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-07-2014, 01:45 PM


 
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This is a hot topic that is debated over and over. I have not experienced my birds being stressed from wing clips. My little Gemma was flighted when I got her a month ago and she got her wings clipped when I brought her home after she almost killed herself in my house 2 times in 48 hours. Didn't phase her in the slightest to get her wings clipped--these are all human assumptions---animals live in the moment. She is still just as playful, cuddly, and happy as if nothing ever happened---she was herself within minutes. She is also ALIVE and she didn't fly outside to get eaten by the local owls, crows, hawks, and vultures. She most likely wouldn't be safe right now at the rate she was going. Sorry I just hear about way too many tragedies with flighted birds living indoors. Just about a month ago on the parrotlet fb group, a little precious baby girl named Kaya tried to fly after her mom and flew into a closing door, broke her neck, and died. The owner was devastated and looking back--missing her so, she doesn't think keeping her flighted was worth the risk of loosing her so young.

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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-07-2014, 02:47 PM


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julie View Post
Hi Everyone
I was contemplating trimming my birds wings. When a expert on parrots told me not to that once they've experienced flying this could stress them out enough to cause them to pluck their feathers. Has anyone experienced this?
It's not necessarily the stress of it that causes the plucking it is the irritation of the end of the feather which now is sharp, constantly rubbing against the body of the bird which then causes them to start plucking to try and rid themselves of the irritation then it becomes habit. I have known quite a lot of birds pluck due to the wing clips.

Then of course you run the risk of stepping on them (as I know members on here have done), shutting them in doors or even opening doors onto them, sitting on them etc. A birds first responce to danger is to fly and if they can't do that they panic and in very little time that bird is now severly injured or dead.

I have known of far too many people who think a clipped bird is safe from getting outside or safe being outside - they are NOT! They are more likely to be killed outside if they escape and are clipped than if they are fully flighted. All it takes is one gust of wind.

Then you have the health benefits of flying, birds that fly were designed to fly, their whole body is designed around this, it gives them the best exercise they can get, by clipping their wings you are not only depriving them of that but also causing harm to them, birds that are clipped too young or for long periods of time end up with muscle wastage due to not being able to use the muscles correctly. This can be irreversable. Just because a bird is a bad flyer to begin with doesn't mean you need to clip them, give them time to learn how to fly and how to land, provide a safe room they can learn in. I have never had a bad flying young bird, the only bad flying birds I have ever had were ones that were kept in tiny cages all their lives or ones that were clipped.
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-07-2014, 02:58 PM


 
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I can accept a partly wing clip when young birds are new at home until they know their enviroment, but not a total wing clip that makes the vird totally unable to fly.
Clipped birds can break their chest bone when falling down, and they have a higher risk for certain deseases, for example aspergillosis, because the air sacks are not enough floated with air.
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-07-2014, 03:28 PM


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flapping Mama View Post
I can accept a partly wing clip when young birds are new at home until they know their enviroment, but not a total wing clip that makes the vird totally unable to fly.
Clipped birds can break their chest bone when falling down, and they have a higher risk for certain deseases, for example aspergillosis, because the air sacks are not enough floated with air.
I agree with this. Especially depending on species. Linnies for example are very heavy bodied and a full clip sends them straight to the floor like a rock. My linnie was fully clipped when I got her and her wings still haven't grown out. I would like her to have at least half of her flight feathers.

Parrotlets and budgies for example fly very well even with just a few flight feathers. Both of mine can get 10-20 feet before gliding to the nearest object.

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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-07-2014, 03:34 PM


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
I have known of far too many people who think a clipped bird is safe from getting outside or safe being outside - they are NOT! They are more likely to be killed outside if they escape and are clipped than if they are fully flighted. All it takes is one gust of wind.
I just disagree. It would be about a 1 in a million chance that I could catch my parrotlet outside if he was fully flighted. Heck, I'd have a hard time catching a parrotlet indoors if it was zooming around like they do. They are EXCELLENT flyers---extremely fast. If my guy got out now with a partial clip, it would be about a 95% chance I could catch him within a matter of seconds/minutes. Once outside, their fate is inevitable. They will starve and dehydrate and being able to fly won't mean anything because they will be so weak they won't stand a fighting chance for all of the many things that will be out to get them. In my area we have tons of wild life including coyotes, raccoons, possums, but also tons of bird life. Over the weekend I just saw a vulture on my street eating a squirrel. I have seen hawks and owls as well.

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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-07-2014, 03:50 PM


 
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I just disagree. It would be about a 1 in a million chance that I could catch my parrotlet outside if he was fully flighted. Heck, I'd have a hard time catching a parrotlet indoors if it was zooming around like they do. They are EXCELLENT flyers---extremely fast. If my guy got out now with a partial clip, it would be about a 95% chance I could catch him within a matter of seconds/minutes. Once outside, their fate is inevitable. They will starve and dehydrate and being able to fly won't mean anything because they will be so weak they won't stand a fighting chance for all of the many things that will be out to get them. In my area we have tons of wild life including coyotes, raccoons, possums, but also tons of bird life. Over the weekend I just saw a vulture on my street eating a squirrel. I have seen hawks and owls as well.
You have no chance of catching them if the wind takes them then the bird can not fly to stay safe. Plus a clipped bird outside is far easier prey than a flighted bird. You'd be amazed at how well birds can adapt to life outside, they are not dumb they know how to find food and water. Their main problem is predators then extreme weather conditions. If you have them clipped and they get out they have little to no chance of surviving, flighted they have a much better chance of survival, the longer they survive the better chance they have. We have wild flocks of budgies, ring necks etc over here all from escaped birds. And I know this is also the situation throughout the world.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-07-2014, 03:58 PM



 
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Can I just remind everybody now before anything gets nasty that clipping is a very controversial topic and one that every forum seems to deal with on a daily basis. It's tiring to have to say the same 'play nice' over and over again but before anybody explodes with this is right and nothing else is I'm putting this here, just to be on the safe side!

Now for my own opinion. I'm with Amelia on this one. The plucking in most cases is caused by the sharp feathers scratching away at the sides

What is the reason that you want to clip for? A lot of people say 'for safety' which quite frankly just isn't worth it. As said above, I've known birds myself get stood on, fall from something higher up and break their keel bone, get attacked by other animals etc. Other times it's 'to keep them tame/to train them'. You won't earn trust from your bird by clipping them. Taking the time and putting the effort in can work wonders, even if it does feel like centuries

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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-07-2014, 04:52 PM


 
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The word is Barbering, when they chew the shaft ends.
The trouble here is that it can then become habitual and very hard to stop from then on from plucking.
But that is only one small issue when considering clipping.
I am with Daisy on what she has had to say.
I cannot back any form of dominance in bird parroting.
Clipping may not cause any noticeable problems in young birds, but certainly can in older birds.
It is much better option to learn to apply Positive Reinforcement and have a much better relationship with your Fid.
As for escaped birds! Most clipped will and do perish, where a large number of flighted tame birds will come down to human or aviary for food. I even know of an avairy bird that got out while I was messing around cleaning the avairy. Two days later it flew back to the aviary and we got it back in the aviary. It was not tame and boy could it fly! What would of been the odds if it had been clipped (Handicapped).

One of my favs at the moment is to say. "It is much better to adjust our environment to suit the Fid than to adjust the Fid to suit our needs."


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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-07-2014, 05:14 PM


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
You have no chance of catching them if the wind takes them then the bird can not fly to stay safe. Plus a clipped bird outside is far easier prey than a flighted bird. You'd be amazed at how well birds can adapt to life outside, they are not dumb they know how to find food and water. Their main problem is predators then extreme weather conditions. If you have them clipped and they get out they have little to no chance of surviving, flighted they have a much better chance of survival, the longer they survive the better chance they have. We have wild flocks of budgies, ring necks etc over here all from escaped birds. And I know this is also the situation throughout the world.
Anyway, I still disagree because the chances of a non-flighted bird getting out are minimal in comparison to a flighted one. My friend and I just rescued a fully flighted lutino peachface lovebird from a cat about a month ago. It was getting batted around on the ground but was just too tired to take full flight and get away. Domesticated birds or animals do not have the same survival instincts as wild animals. It ended up having a puncture wound in its belly. Despite care, it still died. It was heart breaking.

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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-07-2014, 08:29 PM


 
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The chances maybe less. But it does happen and all to often. This can be because of complacency when people think their bird cannot fly and are totally shocked when it flies off. A scared bird can put in efforts you may not of seen before.
I have seen this with my own eyes on more than one occasions.
I also see a fully clipped Cockatiel fly at will inside and outside of the house.
And sorry I can tell you few stories where the clipped bird failed to live due to becoming food. And some of these never got out of the house.


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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-07-2014, 10:03 PM


 
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Quote:
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The chances maybe less. But it does happen and all to often. This can be because of complacency when people think their bird cannot fly and are totally shocked when it flies off. A scared bird can put in efforts you may not of seen before.
I have seen this with my own eyes on more than one occasions.
I also see a fully clipped Cockatiel fly at will inside and outside of the house.
And sorry I can tell you few stories where the clipped bird failed to live due to becoming food. And some of these never got out of the house.
Yup, same here...heard about LOTS of birds who have flown away while clipped, many of whom met an unfortunate end. I'd link the stories if they weren't on other forums.

As far as clipped being "safer" in the home, I don't agree with that either. Sure, a flighted bird can break its neck or die in an accident...guess what, so can a clipped bird. Clipped birds are more likely to get stepped on, break their keel bones from a fall, or end up in a dangerous situation that they can't get out of. Clipping just trades one set of risks and dangers for another. Personally, I would rather have flighted birds who are happier and healthier.

Last edited by aether-drifter; 07-07-2014 at 10:06 PM.
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-07-2014, 10:11 PM


 
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Oh, and yes there is a difference between "proper" clipping a butchering...the latter being clipping so many feathers that the bird drops like a rock. That is NEVER good or safe for them. Many people swear by partial clips, which still allow the bird some gliding and flapping ability. Personally, I don't really see the point, but IF you are going to do it at all, please choose a conservative clip rather than a hack job...
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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-07-2014, 11:11 PM


 
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The person that started this thread has started it before. And I am sure we have all said the same thing. Leads me to believe this person is a troll.

I will say that for those with larger birds, a crash into a door won't kill them. But for those of us with birds that weigh less than a slice of cheese, we have to constantly be mindful of their size.

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Last edited by 4thebirds; 07-08-2014 at 12:40 AM.
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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-08-2014, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
 
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I am not a Troll whatever that is

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thebirds View Post
The person that started this thread has started it before. And I am sure we have all said the same thing. Leads me to believe this person is a troll.

I will say that for those with larger birds, a crash into a door won't kill them. But for those of us with birds that weigh less than a slice of cheese, we have to constantly be mindful of their size.

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If you read my first post all I asked if anyone ever heard about when birds wings are trimmed do they pull their feathers out being stressed out about not flying anymore, that is all I asked. Everyone else led it to this clipping versus not.
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-12-2014, 03:48 PM



 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julie View Post
If you read my first post all I asked if anyone ever heard about when birds wings are trimmed do they pull their feathers out being stressed out about not flying anymore, that is all I asked. Everyone else led it to this clipping versus not.
It's because you said you were contemplating whether or not you should clip your birds wings. It will always spark the debate unfortunately!

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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-12-2014, 09:56 PM
 
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My 2cents. I've never clipped my pet's wings b/c I AM afraid that if they get out, they will be helpless. Cats can jump so high, the can catch a weakly flighted bird in mid air.
My only bird that escaped was flighted. He was on my shoulder as I walked outside. He was rescued after 2 weeks. He had been pecked bald by the sparrows and had apparently lived on tree leaves. If he'd been unflighted, he would have been killed, by the sparrows (whom he escaped over and over, obviously), or by starvation. He forgot his whole vocabulary, but did remember his name which he called out one time about 6 months later: BUTCHEEEEE! He died 6 mos after that, from what I consider to be budgie PTSD. He never came out of his cage again.

My vote is not to clip. My birds that wanted to, (not all did) some just climbed around the cage..... flew around my entire houses that I've lived in. My current one has 2560 sq ft, and when the budgies that wanted to were flying around, they used my whole house. I'm keeping them inside their cage now b/c I have rescue cats and don't want to take the chance of the cats accidentally getting out of their rooms. And, the main flyers have now died of old age.

Last edited by evefromtexas; 07-12-2014 at 10:00 PM. Reason: correct punctuation
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-13-2014, 07:42 AM
 
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I've got both, my sennies are clipped. They kept smashing into walls. For them it's a light clip so they can glide down. My mac is an excellent flier and is fully flighted and will remain so. Arguments can be made for both sides. I do what I feel is best for my birds and you should do the same.

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