Poor baby - Talk Parrots Forums

Parrot Health, Maintenance, and Safety Discuss parrot health, parrot care, parrot safety and maintenance.

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-16-2015, 01:50 AM Thread Starter
 
colbon2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 618
Thanks: 75
Thanked 339 Times in 268 Posts
Rep Power: 8
   
Poor baby

So I purchased a poor rose crown conure who had been picked on by other conures it shared a cage with at the store. I brought her home had her checked out by my avian vet and everything came back good but she didn't have any tail feathers as the other birds plucked them. She has in my opinion been growing them back and doing great. Today she spooked herself tried to fly within her cage lost balance and fell to the bottom. I was told by my vet to lower everything and I did. I even moved my birds around to give her the wider cage over the taller one. She broke blood feathers. I tried to stop the bleeding and after only minutes I made the call to my vet. I drove in and brought her in. They cleaned her up and went to pull her broken feathers but they fell out. They think she could have weak follicles or worst case beak and feather disease. They grabbed enough blood from the broken feather to run a test as she had lost too much they weren't taking it from her. My vet told me to think about if I wanted to run the test I said yes but she told me to go home think about it and if I want to call them tomorrow or in a couple days. The trip costed me money as well but I figured I would rather know then not know.

What would any of you do? It's about $110 to run the test. I am a student and was willing to pay it to know...but with her saying to check back in I am wondering. I had already run a blood panel when I got her and had her sexed but they didn't check diseases. I know to some the cost is high and it is for me as well but I have always put my animals health first. I was read pay to pay but maybe I was rushing into it... She said I could wait and they could also do it a while from now if I want to try some other suggestions they gave me. I wonder if maybe they are trying to tell me to try them and then see.

She is on a mixed pelleted diet with a really small amount of seed almost non existent, she is also given sunshine factor of omega 3 with rain water for feather health. They told me to place a false bottom or top on her existing cage or keep her in a small cage to make sure she doesn't have a chance to fall again. Right now she is in a travel cage. She also said to Place towels on the bottom so there is lots of padding.

The feathers removed is an attached image.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (1.04 MB, 9 views)

Thanks ~Drini~ (Other Forum)
Rest in Peace... (Trixster) 03/17/2000





colbon2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-16-2015, 07:04 AM


 
wyrinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NYC, USA
Posts: 1,058
Thanks: 1,411
Thanked 748 Times in 515 Posts
Rep Power: 12
       
Will it make a difference in how you treat her if she has pbfd? If not, then I would wait on the test, but that is my general philosophy (wait and see). I haven't read up on pbfd in a long time, but would you need to change her diet, give medicine, separate her from the others..... If you don't , then wait, if you need to, then run the test.

Stitch Pikachu Thor Loki

BlazeCinder Sunday

Storm Sky
wyrinth is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to wyrinth For This Useful Post:
colbon2 (07-19-2015), MissyBird (07-19-2015), Mr Peepers (07-16-2015), Zoo mom (07-17-2015)
post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-16-2015, 01:26 PM



 
Mr Peepers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 5,062
Thanks: 1,410
Thanked 656 Times in 569 Posts
Rep Power: 16
   
I'm with Anna on this, find out what you need to know about PBFD and how you have to house this bird with your others.

If she can be kept with your other birds without risk then pass on the test for now but if there are issues where it can harm your other birds or you I'd have the test done so you can make decisions about what you need to do.

I hope she will be okay soon.





Mr Peepers is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Mr Peepers For This Useful Post:
colbon2 (07-19-2015), MissyBird (07-19-2015), Zoo mom (07-17-2015)
 
post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-18-2015, 11:44 AM



 
catalinadee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 17,637
Thanks: 1,593
Thanked 2,007 Times in 1,575 Posts
Rep Power: 99
                     
PBFD is contagious so in my honest opinion I would be separating now and then testing her. If she comes back positive I would then be testing the rest of your flock too. It's always better to be safe than sorry!

A good tip is to get a pillow and place a towel on it. That way you can get a cushy landing and just wash and replace the towel daily. I do it for my IRN

- Alexandrine parakeets Holly, George, Koda & - Crimson rosella Kasumi Orange winged Amazon parrot Paulie
catalinadee is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to catalinadee For This Useful Post:
colbon2 (07-19-2015), Flapping Mama (07-28-2015), MissyBird (07-19-2015), Mr Peepers (07-18-2015), wyrinth (07-20-2015)
post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-19-2015, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
 
colbon2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 618
Thanks: 75
Thanked 339 Times in 268 Posts
Rep Power: 8
   
I have placed Zoey in a small travel cage and requested they do the test..

Thanks ~Drini~ (Other Forum)
Rest in Peace... (Trixster) 03/17/2000





colbon2 is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to colbon2 For This Useful Post:
4thebirds (07-20-2015), Flapping Mama (07-28-2015), Mr Peepers (07-20-2015)
post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-20-2015, 12:10 PM



 
Mr Peepers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 5,062
Thanks: 1,410
Thanked 656 Times in 569 Posts
Rep Power: 16
   
Quote:
Originally Posted by colbon2 View Post
I have placed Zoey in a small travel cage and requested they do the test..
Keeping fingers toes legs eyes and anything else crossed for you and Zoey, best of luck colb.





Mr Peepers is offline  
post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-20-2015, 06:47 PM


 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Auckland NZ
Posts: 464
Thanks: 129
Thanked 287 Times in 179 Posts
Rep Power: 15
             
My first questions would be "Do you see any unusual feathers or ones growing out strangely." "Any signs of beak or toenail over growth" "Poor poohs"
These are all signs of PBFD.
Though it is possible for a bird to get over it, or at least deal with it. They may still be carriers.
You did not say how old this bird is.
I am going to go with just plucking. The tail feathers are one lot of feathers that do pull out easy. It is an escape thing for when they get caught from behind. And if you are only seeing tail damage it will not be PBFD.
Also if this is a very young bird they can tend to be clumsy and knock their tails around.

If this is a very young bird then PBFD develops very quickly. If the bird is over two years old it is a different story.
If you can afford the full testing then I think for your peace of mind 'Do It' Though if you consider she would of already contaminated any other birds she has been around, there is nothing you can do. about it.
Sorry that sounds real mean and horrible.

If this bird has already been with any other bird it is too late to isolate. PBFD remains in the environment for an extreme amount of time, and as far as I know not much can kill it. It is shed in feather dust and dry poohs.
There is no treatment and no cure for PBFD. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. It has been documented since the late eighteen hundreds.
It is not always a death sentence, itself. But it can knock over the immunity and open the bird up to other things that can lead to its death anyway. Some birds seem to be able to deal with it and live a reasonable amount of time.
I have only seen one bad case that I know of. Full blown in a young SC2, and in 4mths it was not pretty.

These are only my own opinions.


A tribute to my lost ones. RIP.

Last edited by clawnz; 07-20-2015 at 08:34 PM.
clawnz is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to clawnz For This Useful Post:
colbon2 (07-23-2015), Flapping Mama (07-28-2015), Mr Peepers (07-21-2015)
post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-23-2015, 01:19 AM Thread Starter
 
colbon2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 618
Thanks: 75
Thanked 339 Times in 268 Posts
Rep Power: 8
   
Quote:
Originally Posted by clawnz View Post
My first questions would be "Do you see any unusual feathers or ones growing out strangely." "Any signs of beak or toenail over growth" "Poor poohs"
These are all signs of PBFD.
Though it is possible for a bird to get over it, or at least deal with it. They may still be carriers.
You did not say how old this bird is.
I am going to go with just plucking. The tail feathers are one lot of feathers that do pull out easy. It is an escape thing for when they get caught from behind. And if you are only seeing tail damage it will not be PBFD.
Also if this is a very young bird they can tend to be clumsy and knock their tails around.

If this is a very young bird then PBFD develops very quickly. If the bird is over two years old it is a different story.
If you can afford the full testing then I think for your peace of mind 'Do It' Though if you consider she would of already contaminated any other birds she has been around, there is nothing you can do. about it.
Sorry that sounds real mean and horrible.

If this bird has already been with any other bird it is too late to isolate. PBFD remains in the environment for an extreme amount of time, and as far as I know not much can kill it. It is shed in feather dust and dry poohs.
There is no treatment and no cure for PBFD. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. It has been documented since the late eighteen hundreds.
It is not always a death sentence, itself. But it can knock over the immunity and open the bird up to other things that can lead to its death anyway. Some birds seem to be able to deal with it and live a reasonable amount of time.
I have only seen one bad case that I know of. Full blown in a young SC2, and in 4mths it was not pretty.

These are only my own opinions.
Thank you for your response... I do appreciate it. I need to know for my peace of mind as she is the only bird that is having any feather issues. It is only her tail feathers.. I personally think it is just because she is clumsy. From what I can see she has broken another feather. I have placed her back in the cage I had her in quarantine in and I also placed a pillow at the bottom with towels and paper towel to brace any future falls.

I am fully aware of the risks of PBFD if this is the case I will deal with it accordingly. I have done nothing but research after the fact. I did some before getting my birds and I also have always maintained my 30-60day quarantine.. My other two birds were from the same breeder so i only waited 30 days but for her I had waited the full 60 something days. I would be devastated if she had it... I haven't heard anything yet from the vet so i am still waiting to find out. I know there is nothing I can do for the tail feathers but just give her time to heal of her own accord.. I have been supplementing Omega 3 and a rain tropical spray to help with feather growth and supplying her with a varied diet. I don't really have the money to pay for the test but it needs to be done for my peace of mind as well as the fact we always watch a friends bird every time they go for holiday and I would not have them bring the bird here if she had it.

Also she is 2yrs old I received her from a local pet store and she had been in a cage with two crimson Bellies. The staff said the other two had been plucking her tail feathers. Which personally i think if they had even done it once why wouldn't you pull the bird out of the cage, but apparently that isn't important. When I took her in they did a full assessment she has been reevaluated and they think she has been harsh on her flight feathers on her right side I think because a couple of them have been stripped on one side. So she herself could also be the culprit. I have never seen her pluck or shred her feathers but I have seen her fall and seen her hit things with her feathers She also has a bad habit of jumping off of things... I won't leave her alone because I am afraid she will jump off of things just to get to me. I can't even let her sit out on her cage she is either with me or in her cage with the door closed. Because she doesn't have really any flight feathers cause they trimmed them and she has shred others and plucked the tail she has no coordination. I will keep an eye out for her no matter what but if anyone has any suggestions I am more then willing to listen and try things to help her..

So far the Omega 3 and tropical rain spray have been added, I added a pillow with Towels to the bottom of the cage so she can have a soft landing, I lowered perches and made sure there was nothing she could really hurt herself on and made everything close so she wouldn't have to jump from one thing to another.. I gave her a bath dish so she could preen often and spray her with water every second day to promote preening and also to cool down my birds as it has been hot here recently.

Thanks for reading
Nikki

Thanks ~Drini~ (Other Forum)
Rest in Peace... (Trixster) 03/17/2000





colbon2 is offline  
post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-23-2015, 07:59 AM



 
Mr Peepers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 5,062
Thanks: 1,410
Thanked 656 Times in 569 Posts
Rep Power: 16
   
Sounds like you have all things covered, I hope she grows back her feathers soon and regains her balance and improves.

Good luck!





Mr Peepers is offline  
post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-24-2015, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
 
colbon2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 618
Thanks: 75
Thanked 339 Times in 268 Posts
Rep Power: 8
   
She doesn't have PBFD!!!!! YAY! I am soooooo relieved.. now i only have to deal with bum trauma not a disease as well i am all clear!!!! Thank the heavens...

Thanks ~Drini~ (Other Forum)
Rest in Peace... (Trixster) 03/17/2000





colbon2 is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to colbon2 For This Useful Post:
catalinadee (07-26-2015), Flapping Mama (07-28-2015), Mr Peepers (07-25-2015)
post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-24-2015, 04:02 PM


 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Auckland NZ
Posts: 464
Thanks: 129
Thanked 287 Times in 179 Posts
Rep Power: 15
             
Great news.
I am not into things like the spray you are using.
Two things come to mind.
Any damaged tail feathers can be pulled and new ones should grow in fairly fast.
Instead of the spray, I would consider upping protein intake. This will only help when they are molting. Same as the spray.
I used a few things with Dexter when we were working through his feather issues.
One was Bee Pollen and another was Biotin, for B vitamin boosting.
Feather condition is relevant to diet, health, and preening. On top of well being.
At two year old I am a bit miffed why she should be falling?


A tribute to my lost ones. RIP.
clawnz is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to clawnz For This Useful Post:
Mr Peepers (07-25-2015)
post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-25-2015, 01:42 AM



 
Mr Peepers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 5,062
Thanks: 1,410
Thanked 656 Times in 569 Posts
Rep Power: 16
   
YAY! Congrats she is okay and doesn't have the dreaded pbfd!

I'm with Clive and agree some good proteins in her diet might help her so she isn't so wobbly, who knows what her diet was like in the pet shop maybe she was lacking something important that helps her balance and gripping of perches.

Now with her in your home you can get her on the right path and see if a better diet helps her equilibrium and keep her from tumbling.

Check her feet carefully for any bumps or callouses that might be bothering her and keeping her from balancing properly as well.





Mr Peepers is offline  
post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-25-2015, 03:05 AM


 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Auckland NZ
Posts: 464
Thanks: 129
Thanked 287 Times in 179 Posts
Rep Power: 15
             
With the blood test. Was there nothing showing low levels of Vitamins or minerals.
I had a thought. Could this be lack of calcium. And I would of thought it should of shown with the first blood panel. I am not saying it is, and not sure, but have a feeling this sort of things could be caused by low calcium. Not even sure where I got that from. So just a thought. And I am totally incorrect.
One thing I can say if you are looking to correct and vit or mineral levels it can take a very long time.
We worked on Dexter for three years before he grew in great conditioned flight and tail feathers.


A tribute to my lost ones. RIP.
clawnz is offline  
post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-25-2015, 09:35 PM Thread Starter
 
colbon2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 618
Thanks: 75
Thanked 339 Times in 268 Posts
Rep Power: 8
   
Quote:
Originally Posted by clawnz View Post
Great news.
I am not into things like the spray you are using.
Two things come to mind.
Any damaged tail feathers can be pulled and new ones should grow in fairly fast.
Instead of the spray, I would consider upping protein intake. This will only help when they are molting. Same as the spray.
I used a few things with Dexter when we were working through his feather issues.
One was Bee Pollen and another was Biotin, for B vitamin boosting.
Feather condition is relevant to diet, health, and preening. On top of well being.
At two year old I am a bit miffed why she should be falling?
Thanks for the tips.. Might I ask what is Biotin? Fair enough with the spray the vet office recommended it and I figured it couldn't hurt. Where would one also get bee pollen? is there any veggies or fruit i should be giving more of to help boost that maybe you or someone else know of?

Thanks again

Thanks ~Drini~ (Other Forum)
Rest in Peace... (Trixster) 03/17/2000





colbon2 is offline  
post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-25-2015, 09:46 PM Thread Starter
 
colbon2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 618
Thanks: 75
Thanked 339 Times in 268 Posts
Rep Power: 8
   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peepers View Post
YAY! Congrats she is okay and doesn't have the dreaded pbfd!

I'm with Clive and agree some good proteins in her diet might help her so she isn't so wobbly, who knows what her diet was like in the pet shop maybe she was lacking something important that helps her balance and gripping of perches.

Now with her in your home you can get her on the right path and see if a better diet helps her equilibrium and keep her from tumbling.

Check her feet carefully for any bumps or callouses that might be bothering her and keeping her from balancing properly as well.
Thank Mr. Peepers! she isn't as wobbly as when I first got her she has come along way and her feather health even though still isn't great at the bum area has improved all over, which I think is good she had stress bars all over her first set of feathers when I got her. I think the falling is mostly being startled or playing and losing grip.. I have removed the toys she played with and would fall from and added more toys to help promote the use of her beak and placed a things lower... I won't say anything about her not having any large falls recently for fear it could happen.

Her out time of the cage has been frequent and brief and really close to the floor as she has a tendency to jump out of my hands and try to fly.. I feel like she has the urge to fly because both Tico and Lilo are fully flighted. I love them having the ability to fly and I will only trim them if I think they are a danger to themselves. I have them in a separate room so I never worry about them flying out of the house as well I live in a condo and they would end up in a hallway if they ever got even that far... Tico has been trimmed a couple times nothing more then just his ability to get much height as he started to fly on and bite the neck of my fiance.. so far he has been much better and his flights are almost fully back again and we will try and leave him fully flighted again.. Hopefully his lovely attitude has taken a turn for the better now that he is a bit older.

Thanks ~Drini~ (Other Forum)
Rest in Peace... (Trixster) 03/17/2000





colbon2 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to colbon2 For This Useful Post:
Mr Peepers (07-26-2015)
post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-25-2015, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
 
colbon2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 618
Thanks: 75
Thanked 339 Times in 268 Posts
Rep Power: 8
   
Quote:
Originally Posted by clawnz View Post
With the blood test. Was there nothing showing low levels of Vitamins or minerals.
I had a thought. Could this be lack of calcium. And I would of thought it should of shown with the first blood panel. I am not saying it is, and not sure, but have a feeling this sort of things could be caused by low calcium. Not even sure where I got that from. So just a thought. And I am totally incorrect.
One thing I can say if you are looking to correct and vit or mineral levels it can take a very long time.
We worked on Dexter for three years before he grew in great conditioned flight and tail feathers.
when they had done the blood panel nothing came back irregular that they told me of they said everything looked good and to just keep an eye on her feather health going forward... how could I improve calcium a bit... I know to much might cause her to gain the urge to lay eggs which i don't want... Also she has cuttlebones, Manu blocks, Harrison's, in her cage at all times... is there something I am missing? I also do Egg noodles sometimes in the mixtures of birdy mash I make.. I have done peas, string beans, carrots, corn, rice, egg noodles, spinach, kale, (strawberries in very small quantities), mango, grapes, Broccoli, watermelon in small amounts usually when I am eating some I share, snap peas... I think that is mostly what they get I might be missing stuff I add when in season... oh cucumber as well in small amounts because it is really watery

The only thing they have never gotten from me in vegetables are Peppers I am allergic and I can't cut them I have tried and I get sick from them so I just avoid them now altogether..

Thanks ~Drini~ (Other Forum)
Rest in Peace... (Trixster) 03/17/2000





colbon2 is offline  
post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-26-2015, 04:00 AM



 
catalinadee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 17,637
Thanks: 1,593
Thanked 2,007 Times in 1,575 Posts
Rep Power: 99
                     
What awesome news! The most expensive bum trauma ever My black capped lory cost me an absolutely fortune in tests. He had everything done as we thought he had PBFD. What was wrong with him? He had the horn because they hit sexual maturity considerably earlier than other species and was sexually frustrated Pain!!! I think Clive has offered good advice, up the protein and add dietary supplements. I don't like using sprays much myself, luke warm water can help encourage preening anyway

- Alexandrine parakeets Holly, George, Koda & - Crimson rosella Kasumi Orange winged Amazon parrot Paulie
catalinadee is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to catalinadee For This Useful Post:
Mr Peepers (07-26-2015)
post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-26-2015, 05:22 AM


 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Auckland NZ
Posts: 464
Thanks: 129
Thanked 287 Times in 179 Posts
Rep Power: 15
             
From what I am reading you are doing just great. And given time things will come right. You seem to be feeding a great varied diet from what I read.
Bee Pollen. I got mine from a Bee person. It can be very high in protein. And it is little pellet form and not cheap. But you only need a very small amount.
Biotin is a supplement (something I would not normally use) But we were looking at boosting B vitiamins. Shame you cannot handle Chilli pepper as they are a good source of B vitamins, along with vit C amongst other beneficial components. Like detoxing.
I am not sure you need to add calcium, as you are feeding some pellets.
I should also add that anything we tried, was never for any extended periods of time. or even daily. I like to mix things up.


A tribute to my lost ones. RIP.
clawnz is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to clawnz For This Useful Post:
Mr Peepers (07-26-2015)
post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-26-2015, 11:39 AM



 
Mr Peepers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 5,062
Thanks: 1,410
Thanked 656 Times in 569 Posts
Rep Power: 16
   
Bee pollen can be purchased in any health food shop, it is expensive and comes in a large jar in loose form or in capsule its a grainy pellet form either way.





Mr Peepers is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Mr Peepers For This Useful Post:
clawnz (07-26-2015)
post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-26-2015, 02:31 PM


 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Auckland NZ
Posts: 464
Thanks: 129
Thanked 287 Times in 179 Posts
Rep Power: 15
             
I was very lucky and found someone with a stand at a market and talked them into letting me have a couple of spoonfuls from a large bag they had there. Not packaged.
This lasted about a month, as I only sprinkled a few noddles over his food now and then.
We also use Red Palm Oil. I think I forgot that one. It is a solid when cold and I used that spread over his apples. With Jack SC2 it was melted by placing the container in hot water to melt into a liquid. Then drops were put on grease proof paper and into the fridge to become solid. Then crumbled into his seed mix. He had bad skin and feather condition when I took him in.


A tribute to my lost ones. RIP.
clawnz is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to clawnz For This Useful Post:
Mr Peepers (07-27-2015)
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Talk Parrots Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome