Busy as - Talk Parrots Forums

Parrot Pictures and Videos Post photos and videos of your parrots.
Thread Description: Two ladies who get my respect

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-04-2013, 05:00 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Busy as

Here I am thinking hand raising one little lorikeet is a big job check out what these two ladies have to contend with....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1375202_10202182932804822_2084017270_n.jpg (84.1 KB, 42 views)
Captaincook2 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Captaincook2 For This Useful Post:
4thebirds (10-05-2013)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-04-2013, 05:56 PM


 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 562
Thanks: 5
Thanked 72 Times in 59 Posts
Rep Power: 15
           
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captaincook2 View Post
Here I am thinking hand raising one little lorikeet is a big job check out what these two ladies have to contend with....
Why are they handrearing them? Were they all rejeced by their parents?
CaptainHowdy is offline  
post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-04-2013, 06:12 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 159
Thanks: 0
Thanked 50 Times in 42 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Oh my goodness!! How cute are those baby macaws!!

My Fids -Candy and Tony
eduardo is offline  
 
post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-05-2013, 07:12 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
Why are they handrearing them? Were they all rejeced by their parents?
They breed birds and hand raise the ones that are earmarked for personal pets...
Captaincook2 is offline  
post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-05-2013, 07:46 AM
 
Topaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 324
Thanks: 7
Thanked 136 Times in 109 Posts
Rep Power: 8
   
Now that looks like fun. But soon as they are done feeding they have to start all over again. lol

Yuki my budgie. Pixie budgie. Blue IRN Goose
Topaz is offline  
post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-05-2013, 08:24 AM


 
tippa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 2,115
Thanks: 275
Thanked 407 Times in 256 Posts
Rep Power: 24
                 
What?!! No Quakers?!!

tippa is offline  
post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-05-2013, 09:38 AM


 
wyrinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NYC, USA
Posts: 1,058
Thanks: 1,411
Thanked 748 Times in 515 Posts
Rep Power: 12
       
Wow, I don't know how they keep up?

Stitch Pikachu Thor Loki

BlazeCinder Sunday

Storm Sky
wyrinth is offline  
post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-05-2013, 02:20 PM


 
Flapping Mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,647
Thanks: 1,255
Thanked 933 Times in 718 Posts
Rep Power: 13
       
Such a lot of cute baby parrots!
But I must admit I prefer parrots that were raised by their parents and have more natural behavior.
Flapping Mama is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Flapping Mama For This Useful Post:
wyrinth (10-05-2013)
post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-05-2013, 04:53 PM


 
4thebirds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: California
Posts: 1,616
Thanks: 1,109
Thanked 903 Times in 591 Posts
Rep Power: 17
             
Of course my eyes went straight to the little plets.

"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened." ~Anatole France
Owned by & slave to: Oliver, Gemma, Cozette, & the English Budgie Crew
4thebirds is offline  
post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-06-2013, 04:25 AM



 
catalinadee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 17,637
Thanks: 1,593
Thanked 2,007 Times in 1,575 Posts
Rep Power: 99
                     
I don't want to start anything, but I very much so hate this photo. Yes, cute baby birds and all, but none of these birds are going to be loved and socialised well are they? They're just mass produced money. A caring breeder would only breed small numbers, not to make a profit, but purely because they enjoy it. I'd rather have a bird that has had one to one handling and plenty of love. Just because they're hand fed doesn't mean anything, they won't necessarily be hand tame. Like all of the sun conures are going to get handled and cuddled. They're just fed and put back!
catalinadee is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to catalinadee For This Useful Post:
CaptainHowdy (10-06-2013), Flapping Mama (10-06-2013), Lovebirdlover (10-06-2013), wyrinth (10-06-2013)
post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-06-2013, 10:02 AM
 
thekarens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 501
Thanks: 372
Thanked 343 Times in 223 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
I've known it both ways. I've seen small breeders who never socialize their babies and I've seen large breeders who have help/employees that spend time socializing the babies.

I've also seen the reverse.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App

Senegals - Sammie & Sydney
Linnies - Pippin & Buttercup
thekarens is offline  
post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-06-2013, 01:29 PM


 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 562
Thanks: 5
Thanked 72 Times in 59 Posts
Rep Power: 15
           
Quote:
Originally Posted by catalinadee View Post
I don't want to start anything, but I very much so hate this photo. Yes, cute baby birds and all, but none of these birds are going to be loved and socialised well are they? They're just mass produced money. A caring breeder would only breed small numbers, not to make a profit, but purely because they enjoy it. I'd rather have a bird that has had one to one handling and plenty of love. Just because they're hand fed doesn't mean anything, they won't necessarily be hand tame. Like all of the sun conures are going to get handled and cuddled. They're just fed and put back!

Said much better than I could have put. I don't agree with this photo at all.
CaptainHowdy is offline  
post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-06-2013, 04:33 PM


 
Kate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Outer Sydney Australia
Age: 67
Posts: 887
Thanks: 135
Thanked 235 Times in 170 Posts
Rep Power: 37
                     
I wouldn't say mass produced money. If those ladies are in Australia, bear in mind what they have paid for the parents of these birds. Each African Grey would have been around $5000, minimum of $7000 for the Blue and Golds, and as for the Parrotlets, they have not been here that long and I saw some in July and it was Price on Application, so that would be well and truly more than they would have paid for the B&G's, even the Conures would have been over $300 each as babies. Then if you got the parents as babies you would have had to wait many many years for the to get to breeding age. So then if you add in the cost of feeding and caring for the birds until they became old enough to breed, that adds up to a very large investment. Maybe they are just trying to re-coup some of the money they have invested in the parents over the years. The seed alone would have been about $25 per bag and they would have gone through many bags per week, add into that all the fruit and veges and maybe pellets (which are extremely expensive over here).

I can remember not that long ago friends of mine paid $10,000 a pair for Suns and they were unsexed, they had had them for 5 years with no babies at that stage.

Exotic parrots are very expensive over here as there were not many brought into the country before imports stopped. I have know of people mortgaging their homes to get the birds they wanted. We have a very few proffessional breeders over here and they are not bird mills, the care they give their birds is better than they care for themselves. The birds probably eat better. Most average people over here cannot afford to buy pairs of these types of birds, and the proffessional breeders are the only ones who may have the money to purchase the parents in the first place to produce birds for the pet market. Most utilize their children or even grandchildren to help socialize the babies with humans.
Kate is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kate For This Useful Post:
Flapping Mama (10-07-2013), wyrinth (10-06-2013)
post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-07-2013, 02:23 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
They are Americans (the macaws are hyacinth) It is one of the biggest breeders in the states and the two ladies are not the only ones looking after them... The babies dont just get fed and put back... Their birds are very much in demand because of the way they are hand raised...
Captaincook2 is offline  
post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-07-2013, 04:52 AM



 
catalinadee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 17,637
Thanks: 1,593
Thanked 2,007 Times in 1,575 Posts
Rep Power: 99
                     
Those are not hyacinth macaws. They're blue and holds. I've been lucky enough to see baby hyacinth and Lear's macaws in person. I wouldn't buy a bird from them. There is no need to hand raise so many at one time. It is physically impossible to spend individual time with every single bird in that photo and I bet that's not all of them either.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App

- Alexandrine parakeets Holly, George, Koda & - Crimson rosella Kasumi Orange winged Amazon parrot Paulie
catalinadee is offline  
post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-07-2013, 04:59 AM


 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 562
Thanks: 5
Thanked 72 Times in 59 Posts
Rep Power: 15
           
Defo not hyacinths. There us no need to handrear like that for a tamer pet. People don't realise the damage caused to these birds psychologically they just see a cute bundle of feathers. Doesn't matter that once mature a lot of those birds change. That's when they start getting passed from pillar to post because don't know what they letting themselves in for and now can't handle the changes. That's why so many end up in rescues with problems. Mental and physical from self harming.

My Patagonian is a perfect example of what happens to them.

Parent reared is far better they get handled daily but they get to learn how to be a bird and not to rely on humans for everything.
CaptainHowdy is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to CaptainHowdy For This Useful Post:
Flapping Mama (10-07-2013)
post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-07-2013, 03:51 PM
 
Jenny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 3,838
Thanks: 194
Thanked 130 Times in 103 Posts
Rep Power: 44
                     
Send a message via AIM to Jenny
Every breeder is different, as Karen said. And I've never met a breeder who makes much in the way of a profit, they spend too much building aviaries, buying parent stock, feeding babies, feeding parents, etc. Most are lucky to break even after a few years, especially breeders of the particularly rare birds. Keep in mind, a proven breeding pair of Hyacinths runs around $30-50k.

I've met small backyard breeders, who only breed a few pairs of p'lets or tiels, who claim to hand raise and raise sickly, untame, sad little babes. I've met mass, nearly commercial level breeders, who have the best facilities EVER and raise the sweetest, most tame birds! It's such an individual, localized thing.

Those ladies look like we would have at the pet shop... Only difference is there would have been 3 of us, not 2. With two part time helpers to clean and stock. There were only 3 of us working full time to feed and socialize the babies, and we had probably as many birds as that photo in the spring time tho with more variety in species. Our birds were ridiculously well socialized, well fed, and well adjusted. It's really a matter of each breeder's dedication and priorities

Personally, it does make me a little sad to see so many birds in that photo simply because I know there just aren't that many perfect homes for them. BUT at the same time, I know I'm a pessimist and for all we know those ladies screen potential buyers and make sure the babies end up in a good home. If I were to judge a breeder simply based on them making sure all the babies were well socialized and had good homes, the bird breeders would be at the bottom of my list... dog/cat breeders would be who I would go after Thankfully, birds are just unique enough there aren't millions of them neglected and abused.

It's a very sensitive, personal topic and I know everyone feels differently. I know, especially on the other side of the pond, it's even more sensitive because people in the UK are much more pro-animal rights. Which is great, I really wish people could be more active and passionate about it in the States! Sometimes it goes a tad far Had to defend myself to Gareth's aunties from the UK who thought I was a terrible person for keeping birds as pets and trimming wings, for having a cat that doesn't go outside, and for wanting to work at a zoo. They practically accused me of neglecting/abusing all my animals! Until I dragged them over to my house and showed them how I keep them (and how much Goober hates life and everyone in it except me and Gareth lol)




Last edited by Jenny; 10-07-2013 at 03:59 PM.
Jenny is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jenny For This Useful Post:
Flapping Mama (10-07-2013), wyrinth (10-08-2013)
post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-07-2013, 04:10 PM


 
Kate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Outer Sydney Australia
Age: 67
Posts: 887
Thanks: 135
Thanked 235 Times in 170 Posts
Rep Power: 37
                     
You can actually have it both ways if you know how to hand raise properly. Most of my birds have been hand raised, these are the ones I have kept myself. I don't really raise my birds for myself as pets, but I have found that a hand raised bird is much more accepting of humans when I show them. They are calm enough for me to handle easily without having to stress them to catch them but at the same time they live with their own kind and they breed. They don't have any psychological problems. They know they are birds but they also don't dislike humans at the same time and don't stress at shows. The ones I have sold as pets, many of them I still see from time to time. Firstly they never forget me, who was their mother and secondly they are still very placid birds with their owners. None have problems. I warn the owners what it is going to be like at puberty and how to get around it and cope with it. They are not screamers or feather pluckers and many of them have gone on to be very successful parents and yes they can even successfully raise their own chicks.

When many of the exotic birds first arrived in Australia, when they did eventually breed when they matured (most came as young birds), because they cost their owners so much money to obtain, most breeders were not prepared to risk losing the youngsters with novice parents, so most were hand raised, some even from the egg as they were incubated. These offspring have all gone on to be successful breeders themselves. It was many years before the offspring of these original birds were sold into the pet market, they were sold or swapped between breeders to make sure they had different blood lines and did not inbreed.

Maybe that is what makes hand raising over here entirely different to what it is like overseas. Most of these exotic birds have not been in this country that long. Remember imports were basically stopped in around 1994 and imports were only started in the late 1980's early 1990's. All the imported birds that came into this country came in through England, this is because of our quarantine laws, basically all animals have to come in via the UK, none come in direct from the US or any other country. They are then 3 months in quarantine here in Australia in a government quarantine facility. Imports were stopped when there was an outbreak of Newcastle's Disease in the UK. Imports may start again at the end of this year but it will be a very short window and the cost will be astronomical as you actually have to pay for the whole quarantine facility even if there are only a dozen birds there. Our quarantine laws are very very strict, which is so many ways is very good as we don't have the diseases that are overseas, but it does make exotic birds extremely expensive to obtain.

We do tend to do things very differently over here and some of it comes from being so far away from everyone else.

My Alexandrines are all hand raised as were their parents, I go into the aviary and they are waiting at the door for me and I get kisses from my 2 boys, the female is only just old enough to breed and because of our weird winter this year they have not bred yet, but their parents bred beautifully, even one year 2 hens like the same breeding box and so they shared it, with both hens incubating the eggs and chicks, unfortunately I lost these birds because of a hawk attack, so only have some of their youngsters to go on with. But my Galah's who were parent raised fly around like lunatics everytime I enter the aviary. They stay up the far end when I enter and if I move towards them they madly try to get away from me. One of their babies who I have kept and hand raised she also comes to the door when I enter but still knows she is a Galah and spends time with her friend in her own aviary.

These are my experiences with my birds and birds I have obtained from other sources when I had the money to do so. They are apparently alot different to what people overseas have experienced.
Kate is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kate For This Useful Post:
Jenny (10-07-2013), wyrinth (10-08-2013)
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Talk Parrots Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome