Hrbrid Rareity - Talk Parrots Forums

Large Parrots Discuss specific (larger) species in this forum: Mini-macaws, macaws, African greys, amazons, cockatoos, etc.

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-22-2010, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 17
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Hrbrid Rareity

Well what do you all think is the least rare hybrid macaw,and the most rare hybrid macaw? (rank the following please) also what would you pay for each
here is the list

http://animal-world.com/encyclo/bird...bridMacaws.php

Last edited by CrazyBirdMAN; 06-22-2010 at 01:19 PM.
CrazyBirdMAN is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-22-2010, 02:00 PM
 
Jenny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 3,838
Thanks: 194
Thanked 130 Times in 103 Posts
Rep Power: 43
                     
Send a message via AIM to Jenny
I think Catalina and Harlequins are the most common - those are the ones I see all the time down here at last. As for least, I would have to go with.... Emeralds, the Hyacinth/Buffons mix



Jenny is offline  
post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-22-2010, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 17
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
What about the Maui Sunset? is it rare
CrazyBirdMAN is offline  
 
post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-22-2010, 05:22 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 131
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Any hybrid that contains parents of one or more less common macaw is going to cost more. Ex: hybrids of hyacinths and red-fronts are going to be more costly than hybrids of blue & golds and scarlets.

Personally (and no disrespect intended) I'm not fond of hybrid parrots and wish that the practice would cease to exist in aviculture. Many parrot species that are hybridized in captivity don't even co-exist in nature so it's generally not a natural phenomenon.

That said, if I were to be able to properly care for a hybrid parrot needing a home and we "clicked", I wouldn't pass the opportunity up.

Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened. ~ Anatole France
Eliza is offline  
post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-22-2010, 05:22 PM
 
Jenny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 3,838
Thanks: 194
Thanked 130 Times in 103 Posts
Rep Power: 43
                     
Send a message via AIM to Jenny
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyBirdMAN View Post
What about the Maui Sunset? is it rare
I'd never heard of it until I saw it on that site, so I would say probably? It's not a true macaw species, really, just a hybrid of a hybrid so...



Jenny is offline  
post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-22-2010, 05:23 PM


 
Kate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Outer Sydney Australia
Age: 67
Posts: 887
Thanks: 135
Thanked 235 Times in 170 Posts
Rep Power: 36
                     
This is something we just don't see in Australia. There are still a very small amount of macaw's here that they are kept pure in breeding situations, those that are pets are usually individual birds mainly due to the price of them. I really have only heard of the Catalina and I am shocked to see so many different hybrids and then 2nd and 3rd generations. At least they are not sterile like many of our Hybrids. Birds like the Princess/Superb, Superb/Regent, Galah/Corella (all the Cockatoo hybrids are sterile). The Lorikeet Hybrids are not sterile and neither are the Asiatic Hybrids.

Thank you for the link I found it fascinating.
Kate is offline  
post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-22-2010, 09:49 PM


 
nanay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 3,142
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 39
                     
I've always believed that if the parents produce fertile offspring, they are actually descendants of one original species. Yes, they would have bred separately for generation upon generation and developed into very different appearing sub-species. I know that the scientific classifications of macaws and such now name them as separate species, but I still think those that produce fertile offspring when hybridized developed generaltions ago from a common species.

If the offspring are mules, then the parents are not as closely related - are not actually the same species, though they are close enough to produce infertile offspring.

I find it very interesting that cockatoo hybrids and others are sterile.


Thanks Shivani for the awesome siggy!
X2
Stanley (bourkes), Roni (senegal), Elisa (lineolated parakeet) and Doug (pacific parrotlet), Daisy (maximilian pionus), Shira (green cheek conure), Ashlynn, (grey), Taylor (princess of wales parakeet), Joelle (quaker), Benny (cockatiel)
nanay is offline  
post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-23-2010, 05:08 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 17
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
I sis not ask if you agree with breeding hybrid birds I simply asked rank the by their rarity.
CrazyBirdMAN is offline  
post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-24-2010, 12:01 PM
 
Jenny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 3,838
Thanks: 194
Thanked 130 Times in 103 Posts
Rep Power: 43
                     
Send a message via AIM to Jenny
Unfortunately, they're all rare enough that, other than the ones I listed, I never even see them in person or for sale at pet shops. I only ever see Catalinas and Harlequins, with the occasional Camelot. I would say they're all rare, especially the 2nd and 3rd generation mixes, and any of the mixes involving a Hyacinth - Hyacinths usually only have one clutch of 1-3 babies a year so that would impact the rarity of those birds.

The hybrid macaws are still very new - no one really knows much about it at all, other than they can breed together and people are experimenting with it. See if you can find a macaw specific forum, they may be able to give you more advice on just how rare some of those species are. Just a warning though, some Macaw people are very passionately against hybridizing, so they may get upset Some forums are very opinionated and you have to be careful...

Do you have a local avian vet? They may be able to give you advice as well



Jenny is offline  
post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-25-2010, 01:01 AM
 
Osprey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Oklahoma
Age: 29
Posts: 438
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Send a message via AIM to Osprey Send a message via MSN to Osprey Send a message via Yahoo to Osprey Send a message via Skype™ to Osprey
It's sad how people hate hybrids. They deserve respect too. (I found out that Neanderthals mated with humans, dunno if that counts or not and sometimes the false killer whale and bottlenose dolphins mate in the wild too but it's extremely rare; dingoes mate with domestic dogs in the wild and red jungle fowl mate with domestic chickens in the wild as well)


They are so beautiful. I'd love to have one someday.

Last edited by Osprey; 06-25-2010 at 03:38 AM.
Osprey is offline  
post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-25-2010, 07:12 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 17
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
I agree with you Osprey, they deserve respect as much as any other parrot.
CrazyBirdMAN is offline  
post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-25-2010, 03:01 PM
 
Jenny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 3,838
Thanks: 194
Thanked 130 Times in 103 Posts
Rep Power: 43
                     
Send a message via AIM to Jenny
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyBirdMAN View Post
I agree with you Osprey, they deserve respect as much as any other parrot.
Yes, they do They've seen Scarlet/Blue and Gold hybrids in the wild, recently, and they're trying to figure out if it happened naturally or if they're captive bred and have escaped.

I don't disagree with any of the hybrids other than the Hyacinth hybrids. Or any hybrids of endangered species. If they're trying to save a species and are asking for older pet Hyacinths to be donated to breeding programs, then I don't like them being wasted on hybridizing. On the same token, if someone's going to breed them for pets regardless, then I suppose it's not such a big deal, really.



Jenny is offline  
post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-25-2010, 04:22 PM
 
Osprey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Oklahoma
Age: 29
Posts: 438
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Send a message via AIM to Osprey Send a message via MSN to Osprey Send a message via Yahoo to Osprey Send a message via Skype™ to Osprey
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyBirdMAN View Post
I agree with you Osprey, they deserve respect as much as any other parrot.
:') Yes... I agree, 100%!
Osprey is offline  
post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-22-2010, 12:22 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 17
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
talk about a hypocritical statement ,I don't disagree with any of the hybrids other than the Hyacinth hybrids. Or any hybrids of endangered species, you cant agree with one and not the other
CrazyBirdMAN is offline  
post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-22-2010, 10:11 AM
 
Jenny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 3,838
Thanks: 194
Thanked 130 Times in 103 Posts
Rep Power: 43
                     
Send a message via AIM to Jenny
I'm sorry but I have to disagree on this one. I'm not overly fond of hybridizing any bird species, but it's the natural progression in captivity for people to start mixing and matching to get new mutations, colors, etc. For the common species, it's not really that big a deal. Selective breeding in birds has been going on for as long as birds have been kept in captivity. Macaws are the first ones which can be hybridized, so it's new grounds for birds. Since the hybrids aren't sterile, then the different species are very closely related, so it's unlikely for there to be any real health consequences long term for the hybrid birds. I've handled many hybrids, the only real negative I see is misproportioned beak/feet/toes in some of the mixes involving birds like Hyacinths or Greenwings and the smaller macaws, like Scarlets, but that's primarily cosmetic, though it can cause problems if left unattended (overgrown beak, toes, etc). However, with continued responsible breeding and monitoring, these problems will get ironed out in a few generations.

But, to me, hybridizing a highly endangered species dilutes the gene pool so that there's no chance of recovery. At the rate of destruction of their native habitat, captive breeding programs and zoos will likely be the only time you'll see a Hyacinth Macaw, Palm Cockatoo, etc. They do the same with the big cats and other animals, and I'm really not fond of it. Take the lyger and taigon craze - I believe it's the lygers (the larger of the two) who get so large due to a lack of a growth hormone inhibitor. The problem is they never stop growing and have constant health problems, often ending in the animal being put down. Rather than waste a valuable breeding endangered Tiger on making this man-made animal who can't even survive on it's own in captivity, the Tiger should be in a captive breeding program to help increase the number of tigers. There have been instances in the past where a species becomes so highly endangered in it's native habitat that a call goes out to zoos, private collections, and pet owners to donate their animals to a breeding program to save the species. That can't be done if a bird who breeds roughly once a year spends every breeding opportunity hybridizing and not producing viable pure offspring.

Ultimately, it all boils down to personal opinion. If you find me hypocritical, then so be it. I don't think I'm being hypocritical, as there are varying levels of hybridization and since I didn't say I accept or disagree with it 100% without condition, to disagree with an element of it is not hypocrisy. However, you're welcome to think what you like about me and the topic Doesn't really bother me. It's a topic that is debated in bird keeping circles and there are many strong proponents of both hybridizing and not. Like all issues, there's a middle ground in there somewhere, it just has to be found.



Jenny is offline  
post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-22-2010, 10:48 AM
 
Sharon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 64
Posts: 340
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Well said, Jenny!

Sharon
Linnie...Levi
Budgie...Sadie
Canary...Jake
Yellow Naped Amazon...Frederico...Freddie...Fred
Sharon is offline  
post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-22-2010, 04:59 PM


 
Kate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Outer Sydney Australia
Age: 67
Posts: 887
Thanks: 135
Thanked 235 Times in 170 Posts
Rep Power: 36
                     
I'm sorry CaptainBirdMan but I agree with Jenny on this. I have nothing against Hybridizing common species if you really must especially if the offspring are fertile and not mules. But to even consider hybridizing endangered species is verging on criminal. They need to be bred with their own species to increase the limited gene pool that already exists. We could have done this with the Orange Bellied Parrot that at one stage only numbered about 50 in the wild. These birds migrate between Victoria and Tasmania and their breeding and feeding habitat was being destroyed. A breeding program was established between a private breeder, a zoo and the Tasmanian National Parks. A limited number of birds were taken out of the wild and also the few breeding pairs that were in captivity already. Their breeding habitat in Tasmania was extended by bringing back the native trees etc where they were known to breed. Birds were bred (many incubated and hand raised to increase the number surviving). Aviaries were set up in the breeding areas and the birds were gradually re-established in the wild. The birds were put in these aviaries to get accustomed to the area, after a period of time the doors of the aviaries were opened and left open and food continued to be put in their and gradually decreased until the birds were fully independent. Within 2 years the number of birds in the wild was more than tripled. This breeding program is still happening now and the birds have been well re-established in the wild. They were virtually extinct and being Neophema's they would readily hybridize with other Neophema's and we would lose this lovely little bird completely. Hybridizing does not save a species all it does is create another species.

Over here people usually hybridize for one reason only and that is money. Hybrids sell for much more than the original species does. A hybrid Galah/Corella was selling for nearly $1000 where the parent birds you would be lucky to get $50 each for. Some hybids can be extremely beautiful. A couple of years ago I was asked to hand raise two Major Mitchell/Galah hybrids. The were very pretty and the owner sold them for $650 each.

I don't disrespect hybrids but do question the motives of some breeders who go out of their way to breed them. The same goes for many of the colour mutations that have been bred. If we are not careful the original colour of these birds will be lost completely with everyone trying to breed mutations as they are worth more money. The normal grey Cockatiel is a prime example. It is nearly impossible to get a pure normal grey bird now. Another with this problem is the normal green Peachface Lovebird. It is even getting very difficult to get the normal green Budgie, the same colour as the wild bird. You put 2 together and end up with blues, greys, pieds and more.
Kate is offline  
post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-22-2010, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 17
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
People don't understand that countries will not take any ordinary person breeding stock. They don't do that nor will ever do that. A breeder that breeds hys for the pet trade, and a country comes to them and asking for there birds would be unheard of . So hybrid Hys are fine with me

Last edited by CrazyBirdMAN; 07-22-2010 at 07:52 PM.
CrazyBirdMAN is offline  
post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-22-2010, 09:11 PM
 
Jenny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 3,838
Thanks: 194
Thanked 130 Times in 103 Posts
Rep Power: 43
                     
Send a message via AIM to Jenny
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyBirdMAN View Post
People don't understand that countries will not take any ordinary person breeding stock. They don't do that nor will ever do that. A breeder that breeds hys for the pet trade, and a country comes to them and asking for there birds would be unheard of . So hybrid Hys are fine with me
I understand that. Odds are, it won't happen. They're not gonna take just any bird from anyone, you're 100% right there. The good, registered breeders could be asked to sell their birds, like Kate mentioned happening in her home town. Our vet is currently trying to breed a highly endangered macaw species for preservation only, though she will sell one as a pet if you want to spend almost $10,000 for the sake of funding her breeding program (i forgot the name - I'll try to remember to ask when I go next week) and she's put the word out for anyone who has one to consider surrendering them to her for the sake of preserving the species. Obviously, she will only breed the ones she deems fit for it, but the point still stands.

Heck, I still kinda think that Hy's(and Palms, and any other highly endangered bird) should require a permit to own too many people own them as a status symbols That being said? I would love a Hy as a pet and would happily get a permit to own one. I would also love to breed them one day, but since I'm not winning the lottery any time soon, it's not gonna happen. Also? If it came down to it? I would surrender any endangered bird I owned to a captive breeding program if it came down to it, if I felt my bird could handle it. It would break my heart, but... for the greater good of the species, I would let them go to a responsible breeding program (though I may request visitation rights! )

Again, it's all a matter of opinion. I'm sorry if I seemed to go off on you in any way, I just take exception to being called a hypocrite Like I said, this is a highly debated topic, which often gets heated. I didn't mean to cause a big debate either, but it is an interesting topic to discuss as long as it all stays cool, calm, and respectful



Jenny is offline  
post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-22-2010, 11:15 PM


 
nanay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 3,142
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 39
                     
Question

I have heard that hybridizing hyacinths with other macaws results in mules (infertile offspring). Does anyone know if this is true or not?

Also, Kate, are neophema hybrids mules? I know you said many of the cockatoo hybrids are.


Thanks Shivani for the awesome siggy!
X2
Stanley (bourkes), Roni (senegal), Elisa (lineolated parakeet) and Doug (pacific parrotlet), Daisy (maximilian pionus), Shira (green cheek conure), Ashlynn, (grey), Taylor (princess of wales parakeet), Joelle (quaker), Benny (cockatiel)
nanay is offline  
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Talk Parrots Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome