GSE in water? - Talk Parrots Forums

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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-12-2011, 07:56 AM Thread Starter
 
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GSE in water?

heyI was just reading that you can put grape fruit seed extract in your birds water to purify, I think think thats such a good idea to get rid of baceria and make sure that your giving them safe water

it says 10 drops per gallon so im not really sure of how much to put in.

Also I was wondering if anyone else does this and if people think its necessary for every day use
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-14-2011, 09:43 PM
 
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I've heard that several places. I've really wanted to try it out. I believe it cleans and is good for the birds, gives them vitamins or something like that. Can't remember exactly.




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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-14-2011, 10:12 PM Thread Starter
 
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Hmm so I've been reading about it and it seems that you shouldn't use it in water for birds everyday, only use it when you suspect possible intestinal problems. It seems that GSE has a very acidic ph so you don't really want to be adding something very acidic to their system without having something else to balance the other alkaline side.

Apparently GSE can kill parasites even giardia, and mine skin problems, its even been known to help with mange. It's really quite amazing but I think maybe it best just to give it every once in a while. Like maybe give it for a week every 6 months so that you kill anything that might be in their system. It's too bad because it would be nice to use GSE simply to purify the water but it seems theres not that many studies done of it so I wouldn't want to really test that out.

However I have been using it as a lysol, and to wipe down the cages, and to get the pesticide off their veggies.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-14-2011, 10:37 PM


 
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I'd like more information about GSE, too.


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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-15-2011, 09:41 AM



 
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What is this GSE?
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-15-2011, 10:27 AM
 
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It's Grape Seed Extract, Daisy.




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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-17-2011, 12:01 PM
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Honestly, I think it is kind of a scam and you are better off not using it.
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-17-2011, 01:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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why do you think its a scam Jackie?

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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-17-2011, 03:10 PM



 
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Thanks Abby!
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-01-2011, 10:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAS View Post
Honestly, I think it is kind of a scam and you are better off not using it.
A scam? Really? Why do you think this?




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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-02-2011, 10:24 PM
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This article here led me to believe it was a scam:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapefruit_seed_extract
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-04-2011, 05:23 AM



 
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I read it but only quickly, what about it makes you believe that? Sorry, as I said, I quickly skimmed it and it just said it is used a lot in health stores etc
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-04-2011, 09:03 PM
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Here is the expanded link:

Grapefruit_seed_extract Grapefruit_seed_extract

Efficacy

Anecdotal claims for an antimicrobial effect are based on a few abstract scientific experiments which show some antimicrobial activity for commercial grapefruit seed extracts and an ethanol grapefruit seed extract but not a natural GSE.[17][18][19] The preliminary studies for the antimicrobial effect state that the Citricidal commercial brand of GSE was used for testing.[17][18] There is considerable scientific evidence that the anti-microbial activity associated with grapefruit seed extract is attributable to the contamination or adulteration of commercial GSE preparations with synthetic antimicrobials or preservatives.[2] According to the 2001 GSE study, branded commercial GSE preparations were contaminated with synthetic benzethonium chloride that was implausible to be made from grapefruit seeds.[5] Some of the marketers claimed that their product does not contain benzethonium chloride and the error was due to the similarity in molecular weight of the quaternary ammonium compound which was formed through a proprietary manufacturing process.[5] It is inconceivable that the preservative benzethonium chloride is formed during any extraction and/or processing of grapefruit seeds and pulp.[5] Researchers conclusively demonstrated the presence of benzethonium chloride in commercial GSE using various analytical methods including HPLC, one- and two-dimensional NMR, PIXE analysis, and electrospray ionization MS.[5] Another in vitro study claimed GSE had antibacterial properties.[19] As with the branded in vitro test[17][18] this extract was contaminated.[5] The ethanolic grapefruit seed and pulp extract tested was prepared or contaminated with ethanol, a chemical solvent used in the extraction process.[19] Ethanol, also known as ethyl alcohol, is effective in inhibiting bacteria.[20] Nevertheless, as a result of marketing by manufacturers in the health food arena and a few misinterpreted studies conducted in vitro that tested contaminated extracts which were not pure GSE processed without solvents or brands which are known to contain preservatives, the controversy over the effectiveness of GSE continues even when studies concluded self-made pure GSE has no natural antimicrobial properties and commercial GSE has been identified with contamination from synthetic preservatives.[1][2][5][6][21]
Independent studies have shown that commercial preparations contain the compound benzalkonium chloride, which is a synthetic antimicrobial commonly used in disinfectants and cleaning products, the related compound benzethonium chloride, the antibiotic triclosan, or the preservative methylparaben.[1][6][21] Some samples were shown to contain up to 22% benzalkonium chloride by weight, despite the known allergenicity[22] and toxicity[23] of the compound at higher doses.[6] These chemicals were not present in grapefruit seed extracts prepared in the laboratory, and GSE preparations without the contaminants were found to possess no detectable antimicrobial effect.[1] Although citrus seed extract is sold in health food markets,[6] there is no good evidence for any natural antimicrobial activity.[1][7]
A study that examined the antiviral properties of GSE found that GSE had no efficacy as a disinfectant for feline calicivirus and feline parvovirus.[24] Grapefruit seed extract has been advocated to be a powerful antimicrobial with proven activity against bacteria and fungi. However, independent studies have shown the efficacy of grapefruit seed extract as an antimicrobial is not demonstrated. Although citrus seed extract is claimed to be a highly effective plant-based preservative by some natural personal care manufacturers, studies asserted that the universal antimicrobial benefits associated with GSE are merely from the presence of synthetic preservatives. Natural GSE has no antimicrobial properties.[1][2] Newer studies found many commercial grapefruit seed extracts contaminated with synthetic preservatives.[8][9][10] In a 2007 study the main synthetic antimicrobial agent identified in commercial GSE samples was benzethonium chloride.[8] In a 2008 study synthetic disinfectants such as benzethonium or benzalkonium chloride were identified in most of the commercial GSE products.[9] In a 2008 study suspected counterfeit products were determined to contain benzethonium chloride in grapefruit seed extract samples.[10]



Controversy

GSE usage has been popularized by many companies within the scope of the health food industry.[5] There are books exclusively dedicated to GSE.[3][41][42] This extract is promoted by marketers on the internet and some health food stores recommend its use.[5][7] Some consumers believe this extract is an effective natural preservative even though multiple scientific studies have concluded that the universal antimicrobial activity is merely from contamination with synthetic antimicrobials.

Personally, I do not think anything should be added to your bird's water, not GSE, not vitamins, not antibiotics. I filter my bird's water but other tan that, I think they should just be given clean, fresh water. As well, some birds will reject their water if there is stuff added to it.

Last edited by JAS; 03-04-2011 at 09:32 PM.
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-06-2011, 01:48 AM
 
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I prefer organic apple cider vinegar. I put it in our pionus Nanna's water every day for months. She was not in good health when we got her. Ankles were swollen and feet stiff. She is so much healthier now. Her ankles are not swollen or red. Her toes are better and on ne foot they curl around the perch, before they did not.
I posted on this thread because I feel acv is a good alternative to GSE. Easier to get also.
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-06-2011, 10:01 AM


 
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What health benefits are there to apple cider vinegar? I had heard of it in humans for stomach upset, especially relating to hyatal (sp?) hernia.

Is GSE grapefruit seed extract or grape seed extract? I thought I had read both.

By the way, I have used coconut vinegar for my own digestion problems.


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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-06-2011, 03:23 PM
 
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Organic asv is an old, old remedy for us humans. I knew an older lady who used it daily just because its good for the bowels, skin, you name it. She used one teaspoon in a large glass of water. I used it for a while till I found a kombucha (fungus) mushroom and started making tea again. Acv provides b and c vitamins.
Here's another wonder, anyone ever use flowers of sulpher for sore throats?

Disclaimer... I haven't used gse because its not at my regular shopping stops.
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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-06-2011, 07:08 PM


 
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I've never heard of flowers of supher. I'll have to look that up.


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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-06-2011, 08:18 PM
 
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Finely ground sulphur. Get it at the pharmacy, you have to ask. Works like a charm for sore or swollen throats. The pharmacist won't have a clue as to its use. I have had the conversation and they are always befuddled. I have used it for over ten years. Make a paper cone, pick up a very small amount in the tip of the cone. Take a deep breath, have someone bow it onto your tonsil area. I know, sounds crazy. Kept me out of the drs. Office many times. Sulpher,a natural antibiotic! Unless you are allergic.
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-09-2011, 04:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brute Squad View Post
I prefer organic apple cider vinegar. I put it in our pionus Nanna's water every day for months. She was not in good health when we got her. Ankles were swollen and feet stiff. She is so much healthier now. Her ankles are not swollen or red. Her toes are better and on ne foot they curl around the perch, before they did not.
I posted on this thread because I feel acv is a good alternative to GSE. Easier to get also.

I use that exact stuff often to clean branches. I cannot stand the smell, it is probably the most horrible thing I have EVER smelled in my entire life. But I didn't know you could actually put it in their water and it would benefit them health wise?




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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-19-2011, 09:41 AM
 
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I do use GSE in my birds water about once a week. Really you shouldn't have to worry too much about bacteria as long as you change the water bowls daily. I mainly use it in the water bowls with the birds that like to make soup out of their water. About 5-6 drops in a 30 oz bowl of water. I have found that moving the bowls helps much more. Placing them high in the cage helps to keep them from pooping in the water so much.
When Alex was sick with a yeast infection, I used GSE. I mixed it in his hand feeding formula and a few days later the yeast infection was gone and he was eating again. GSE does have its benefits. Its grapefruit seed extract and you can get it at any health food store or order it online much cheaper. I would have thought it was a scam until I tried it with Alex and it got rid of the yeast infection. It was much faster to get than Nystatin.
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