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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
 
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Seed Mix with no shelled sunflowers??

Wondering if someone could recommend a good combo seed/pellet cockatiel mix that doesn't have sunflower seeds (in shell) or is low in them. I've been feeding all of my birds Kaytee Supreme but it's high in Seeded Sunflowers. I've got shells everywhere and it's driving me nuts, plus it seems like the P'lets go for those first before eating anything else. I've tried VitaSeed, but it has a fruity smell to it and they didn't seem to like it much. I ended up having to mix it 1/2 & 1/2 with what we had in order to use it up. Looking for something that is about 60-70% seed, 30-40% pellet.

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 01:59 PM


 
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I don't feed pellets but, for the little ones I use ABBA 1600 (budgie mix) which has no sunflower seeds in it. For the tiels I use ABBA 1600C (cockatiel mix) and 1300 (small psittacine without sunflower seeds) mixed together in equal amounts because the 1600C has sunflower in it while the 1300 doesn't and the 1300 has some other stuff added (wasabi peas, etc).

Last edited by petiteoiseau; 03-17-2014 at 02:02 PM.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-18-2014, 05:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petiteoiseau View Post
I don't feed pellets but, for the little ones I use ABBA 1600 (budgie mix) which has no sunflower seeds in it. For the tiels I use ABBA 1600C (cockatiel mix) and 1300 (small psittacine without sunflower seeds) mixed together in equal amounts because the 1600C has sunflower in it while the 1300 doesn't and the 1300 has some other stuff added (wasabi peas, etc).
Wow.

Beyond any personal feelings I might have about this, is feeding cow's milk along with mammal, poultry, and fish flesh to a parrot a reasonable thing to do (and especially so much)?

While ever feeding any of the above has always been a straightforward 'absolutely not, are you crazy?' in every book and PDF worth respect I've ever read regarding psittacine diet (which amounts to vast volumes), you have proven to be of knowledge, critical thinking, and evidence-based opinion, petiteoiseau, and so I ask:

Do you regard the feeding of dairy and animal flesh to a parrot a wise thing to do, and if so, why?

Last edited by Deresy; 03-18-2014 at 05:40 PM. Reason: Typo, grrrr.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-18-2014, 06:07 PM


 
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I don't know about Bibi, but I don't think feeding a bird dairy and animal flesh a bad thing. I think a good mix of everything is a good idea. As far as animal flesh, most parrots will encounter and eat a certain amount of it in nature, usually in the form of insects and grubs. Also, cooked dairy is not any more or less weird than processed corn pellets.
Really, what we feed our birds is subjective, with so many options, it is up to the pet owner to determine how well the bird is doing on the food.

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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-18-2014, 06:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyrinth View Post
I don't know about Bibi, but I don't think feeding a bird dairy and animal flesh a bad thing. I think a good mix of everything is a good idea. As far as animal flesh, most parrots will encounter and eat a certain amount of it in nature, usually in the form of insects and grubs. Also, cooked dairy is not any more or less weird than processed corn pellets.
Really, what we feed our birds is subjective, with so many options, it is up to the pet owner to determine how well the bird is doing on the food.
Well reasoned and argued, wyrinth. That makes a lot of sense.

While I find the idea of solely feeding a bird a vet-recommended pellet that is mostly composed of soy and corn repellant (beyond dietary concerns, it seems like a cheap, grimy cop out on behalf of pellet manufacturers, one which benefits no one but a balance sheet's bottom line), a well-balanced mix that includes any and all nutrients--however fringe in their natural prominence--can be nothing but a good thing as a bird picks through it.

I tend to favor variety over convenience when it comes to feeding, and your arguments pushed me out of my little comfort zone into a more open-minded view. Some good stuff to think about
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-18-2014, 07:00 PM


 
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I buy Kaylor of Colorado Parakeet seed for my linnie and budgie. I like the types of seed in it which you can't find in most parakeet seed (small oil seeds like rape, niger, and then buckwheat, etc.). It does not contain any larger seeds so Oliver plet doesn't like it as much- and my other birds wont touch the larger seeds. So, I switched him to Kaylor of Colorado Lovebird mix as it seems to have many of the same ingredients as the Volkmans parrotlet but I can get it local for half the price. He loves it. I mix it with some sunshine factor for his feathers. He eats about a tsp of seed a day, 1/2-1 tsp of pellets, and a tablespoon of fresh (which includes sprouts about two weeks out of the month). My birds like the roudybush pellets but only in a different cup higher in the cage, any other way and they won't eat it. They will not eat the pellets if they are mixed in with seeds. As far as sunflower seeds, I throw the sunflower seeds in his foraging toys. A few a day are good for parrotlets (oil seed with a little fat), but if given the choice that would be all the they would eat which is not good of course.

The debate with seed and pellets continues on. Whatever anyone argues, a dry seed and fresh diet is not enough unless the person is supplementing. Dry seeds are not as nutritional as live seeds that birds eat in the wild. With fresh and seed, birds will pick out the things they like which is bound to leave nutritional gaps. This is why I offer seeds, sprouts, pellets, veggies, fruits, and grains. I hope to cover all gaps.

As far as animal protein, they absolutely don't need it. Arguably, neither do we when there are so many healthier options for protien available without all of the horrible cholesterol and fat. I do not eat much animal products, my birds do not get any aside from the ocassional egg in bird bread.

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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-18-2014, 07:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thebirds View Post
As far as animal protein, they absolutely don't need it. Arguably, neither do we when there are so many healthier options for protien available without all of the horrible cholesterol and fat. I do not eat much animal products, my birds do not get any aside from the ocassional egg in bird bread.
High five. Just reading this let me release a sigh of relief I had been holding in since posting in this thread. While I am always open to reasoned argument, one adores the comfort of like-mindedness and self-accepted thought presented from another.

Thank you for that (and methinks your birds might thank you as well).



Edit: I feed my bird a mix made up of fresh vegetables and fruit, soaked and sprouted quinoa and TOP seed, and TOP pellets which are frozen in batch and thawed each night and then mixed with fresh fruit and veg, ground and whole flax, rolled oats, and dry quinoa (this might seem crazy, though the batch takes 45 minutes once a month, and the daily food batch takes ten minutes (which is then refrigerated and doled out during the day). My bird seems to be thriving on this stuff, and seems particularly interested in certain foods on certain days (be it broccoli, flax, quinoa, or kiwi), which really gives me evidence that a bird (or at least my bird) prefers certain things on certain days based on functions we lowly humans may not fully understand and thus variety trumps convenience.

Last edited by Deresy; 03-18-2014 at 07:37 PM.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
 
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I appreciate everyone's opinions. As a whole I feel that my birds have a good diet, they eat better than I do. I just wanted to change up the seed/pellet mix I use because the sunflower shells drive me insane. That's it...no other reason. As already stated they get a seed/pellet mix which is available 24/7 and I also give them the following.

1. Millet~available 24/7
2. Cuttlebone~available 24/7
3. Veggie Mix~makes enough for a month, keep frozen & remove as needed.
(they get this every morning for breakfast)
2 bags frozen mixed veggies
2 bags frozen steamed & peeled sweet potato
1 bag frozen broccoli
1/2 bag frozen edamane, shelled
6 scrambled eggs, no seasoning
2 cups steamed whole grain brown rice, no seasoning
1/2 cup whole flaxseeds
4. Nut mix~makes enough for a month, stored in airtight container.
(this is their evening meal/snack before bedtime~all nuts are raw &
unsalted. I use combination of shelled, unshelled & cracked shells)
Sprouts Mixed Nut Mix and I add the following to it.
Walnuts w/cracked shells
Natural Granola
Dried Fruits
Flax Seeds
Pumpkin Seeds in Shell
Cheerios
Cashews
Extra Almonds, the P'lets like these
5. Fruit~ I buy fresh fruit in season and will give them fruit as a treat during
the day. I keep Apples, Strawberries & Raspberries on hand at all times
as these are favorites, but I'll also buy others depending on the season.
Always cut & prepared so that they do not get toxic seeds etc. The
exception being Kiwi in which case the seeds are fine.
6. Table Food~ This is probably the most debatable area, but I have hard time
telling my P'lets "NO" when it comes to my plate. I don't let them have
anything that I KNOW is on their banned list, but I do let them sample
anything that they show interest in. Their favorites are Pizza (homemade
wheat crust), homemade whole grain waffles and Chinese food (the cooked
veggies, carrots and such).
7. Treat Sticks~ commercial treat sticks, available 24/7
8. Training Treats~ PINE NUTS! This is bird crack! Esp for the P'lets and the
hated Shelled Sunflowers for the 'Tiels
9. 7 Grain Sprouted Ezekiel bread

I keep a typed list next to each cage (see photo below) in order to remind the kids, husband and any guests what NOT to feed my birds.

Anyway...I do appreciate any nutritional advice anyone wants to offer in regards to their diet, but really what I'm after is a good seed/pellet combo that doesn't have Sunflower in it
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 12:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M'éanín's Mommy View Post
but really what I'm after is a good seed/pellet combo that doesn't have Sunflower in it
I sincerely apologize for derailing the thread.

I use a combination of dry Totally Organics Crumplets and dry Napoleon's Seed mix for my parrotlet's always-filled in-cage food dish, which she seems to like well enough. There are no sunflower seeds in the mix, and I feel pretty good about the ingredients of both of these products.

Last edited by Deresy; 03-19-2014 at 12:57 PM. Reason: Fixed links
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 03:21 PM


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deresy View Post
Wow.

Beyond any personal feelings I might have about this, is feeding cow's milk along with mammal, poultry, and fish flesh to a parrot a reasonable thing to do (and especially so much)?

While ever feeding any of the above has always been a straightforward 'absolutely not, are you crazy?' in every book and PDF worth respect I've ever read regarding psittacine diet (which amounts to vast volumes), you have proven to be of knowledge, critical thinking, and evidence-based opinion, petiteoiseau, and so I ask:

Do you regard the feeding of dairy and animal flesh to a parrot a wise thing to do, and if so, why?
I never feed dairy or animal protein (aside from hard-boiled eggs from organically fed, no antibiotics, no hormones, pastured hens maybe two or three times during the breeding season) to my birds.

Birds are not mammals so they don't have the enzymes to break down any dairy product so, in reality, even though they might like them (they certainly like cheese but it's because of the salt content in it), they derive no benefit from it and might give them diarrhea or indigestion.

As to animal flesh, people would mention their eating insects in the wild but the quantity they eat is negligible and, most importantly, insect protein contains NO bad cholesterol while chicken, beef, etc do. Now, even if we are talking about feeding them 'good' meat (organic feed, no antibiotics, no hormones, pastured animals, etc), animal protein is completely different from vegetal protein and, while we, humans, consider animal flesh a 'complete protein' source, parrots did not evolve to have a need for this kind so they don't metabolize it the same way a carnivore or a omnivore would.

Many years ago, we used to feed them meat. Why? Because we figured out that birds that ate meat lived longer than birds that ate only seeds -it was a way of providing them with vit D3 and calcium although we did not know this was the reason back then. But there is no longer need for them to eat animal flesh to provide these necessary nutrients and I've gotten many birds with severe healthy issues because they were fed meat on a regular basis (I once took in an amazon that had white spots on her eyes that were nothing but deposits of cholesterol -she died of a cardio vascular episode before I could get her better).
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 03:25 PM


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M'éanín's Mommy View Post
I appreciate everyone's opinions. As a whole I feel that my birds have a good diet, they eat better than I do. I just wanted to change up the seed/pellet mix I use because the sunflower shells drive me insane. That's it...no other reason. As already stated they get a seed/pellet mix which is available 24/7 and I also give them the following.

1. Millet~available 24/7
2. Cuttlebone~available 24/7
3. Veggie Mix~makes enough for a month, keep frozen & remove as needed.
(they get this every morning for breakfast)
2 bags frozen mixed veggies
2 bags frozen steamed & peeled sweet potato
1 bag frozen broccoli
1/2 bag frozen edamane, shelled
6 scrambled eggs, no seasoning
2 cups steamed whole grain brown rice, no seasoning
1/2 cup whole flaxseeds
4. Nut mix~makes enough for a month, stored in airtight container.
(this is their evening meal/snack before bedtime~all nuts are raw &
unsalted. I use combination of shelled, unshelled & cracked shells)
Sprouts Mixed Nut Mix and I add the following to it.
Walnuts w/cracked shells
Natural Granola
Dried Fruits
Flax Seeds
Pumpkin Seeds in Shell
Cheerios
Cashews
Extra Almonds, the P'lets like these
5. Fruit~ I buy fresh fruit in season and will give them fruit as a treat during
the day. I keep Apples, Strawberries & Raspberries on hand at all times
as these are favorites, but I'll also buy others depending on the season.
Always cut & prepared so that they do not get toxic seeds etc. The
exception being Kiwi in which case the seeds are fine.
6. Table Food~ This is probably the most debatable area, but I have hard time
telling my P'lets "NO" when it comes to my plate. I don't let them have
anything that I KNOW is on their banned list, but I do let them sample
anything that they show interest in. Their favorites are Pizza (homemade
wheat crust), homemade whole grain waffles and Chinese food (the cooked
veggies, carrots and such).
7. Treat Sticks~ commercial treat sticks, available 24/7
8. Training Treats~ PINE NUTS! This is bird crack! Esp for the P'lets and the
hated Shelled Sunflowers for the 'Tiels
9. 7 Grain Sprouted Ezekiel bread

I keep a typed list next to each cage (see photo below) in order to remind the kids, husband and any guests what NOT to feed my birds.

Anyway...I do appreciate any nutritional advice anyone wants to offer in regards to their diet, but really what I'm after is a good seed/pellet combo that doesn't have Sunflower in it
I would eliminate the Cheerios, they are crazy high in iron and birds do NOT need to be supplemented with it, they consume enough for their needs in veggies. I also do not feed any soy whatsoever to any of my animals.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 03:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petiteoiseau View Post
I never feed dairy or animal protein (aside from hard-boiled eggs from organically fed, no antibiotics, no hormones, pastured hens maybe two or three times during the breeding season) to my birds.
You had mentioned above that you feed ABBA 1300. I linked to the ingredients of ABBA 1300 bird food, which lists cow's milk and mammal, poultry, and fish flesh (in considerable quantities, if they are using a standard ingredient list format).

This seems strange to me. Perhaps there is a different ABBA Seed company?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petiteoiseau View Post
I would eliminate the Cheerios, they are crazy high in iron and birds do NOT need to be supplemented with it, they consume enough for their needs in veggies. I also do not feed any soy whatsoever to any of my animals.
The Cheerios are a treat. They get a few rounds per bird each week, maybe 4 or 5. Not particularly concerned with it. The items on my food list aren't given each day. With exception of the seed mix, veggies, millet the other items are rotated.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 03:11 PM


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deresy View Post
You had mentioned above that you feed ABBA 1300. I linked to the ingredients of ABBA 1300 bird food, which lists cow's milk and mammal, poultry, and fish flesh (in considerable quantities, if they are using a standard ingredient list format).

This seems strange to me. Perhaps there is a different ABBA Seed company?
LOL - No, it's the same company. If you look at the ingredients list carefully, you will see that those are the ingredients of what they call "Kibbled biscuit" -which is like a little dark tube thingie (if you look at the picture, you will see a dark vertical thing in the middle and, to the left of the bottom end of it, you can see the 'kibbled biscuit' thingie). There are very few of them and I used to pick them out but I no longer do because my birds won't eat them (they are like a dry twig!). Just by looking at the list, it would appear that these are in large quantities because they are half-way down but all the ingredients that follow are included in them -like the ground fruits, vitamins and such. The birds eat only the seeds. But the raw peanuts in it bother me and it real hard to pick them out so I am going to have to buy just the seeds and make the mix myself.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 03:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petiteoiseau View Post
LOL - No, it's the same company. If you look at the ingredients list carefully, you will see that those are the ingredients of what they call "Kibbled biscuit" -which is like a little dark tube thingie (if you look at the picture, you will see a dark vertical thing in the middle and, to the left of the bottom end of it, you can see the 'kibbled biscuit' thingie). There are very few of them and I used to pick them out but I no longer do because my birds won't eat them (they are like a dry twig!). Just by looking at the list, it would appear that these are in large quantities because they are half-way down but all the ingredients that follow are included in them -like the ground fruits, vitamins and such. The birds eat only the seeds. But the raw peanuts in it bother me and it real hard to pick them out so I am going to have to buy just the seeds and make the mix myself.
Hee hee, I am so glad you sorted this out for me... I have to admit I was completely confused by this whole thing--it seemed like I was witnessing an alternate reality.

(In full disclosure: I had only looked up ABBA 1300 because you had recommended it, and therefore I thought it worthwhile to consider... Until I saw those ingredients which left me in a right kerfuffle )

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