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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-18-2014, 02:41 PM Thread Starter
 
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Has anyone heard of this?

Our vet sends out a newsletter periodically. It's a well rounded vet with at least three avian vets, two who do other exotics, one who specializes in dogs and cats and one who is generalizes in everything.

A recent newsletter had the following article which I had never heard of before. Has anyone heard of this toxicity?

Here's the article:
Grape & Raisin Toxicity

We all know we shouldn't give "people food" to our pets. Quality pet food already contains all of the nutrients and calories they need to be healthy. Still, it's very hard to deny those pitiful eyes begging for just a little morsel from the table. Many of the "harmless" little handouts we share with our pets are in the least unnecessary calories, and may complicate dietary sensitive chronic conditions like heart disease or pancreatitis. What we may not realize however, is that there are certain foods that are certainly healthy for people, but can be quite toxic to our pets. The most widely known food toxin is chocolate. Onions and garlic can also cause illness. In recent years, grapes and raisins have been implicated in food toxicities; some cases of which have caused serious harm or even death.

The responsible chemical toxin in grapes and raisins is unknown. It is speculated that mycotoxin, a fungal by-product, or pesticides might be to blame; however, no consistent evidence exists to prove a direct link. In cases of toxicity, there is no pattern of the variety or origin of the grape or raisin ingested; nor does it seem to depend on seed vs. seedless, skin-on or skin-less, et cetera. It is also difficult to assess how many grapes or raisins an animal can consume before developing a toxic reaction. Many pets may consume a significant quantity without any ill effect, and others become extremely sick or may die. Any ingestion of grapes or raisins should be considered an emergency and be brought to the attention of the veterinarian immediately.

The initial symptoms seen within several hours after grape or raisin ingestion include vomiting followed by diarrhea, lethargy, and increased thirst. From 24 hours to several days later, acute renal failure (kidney failure) may occur. Since the exact toxin is unknown, there is no known antidote available. And, because it is unpredictable how each animal will react to grape or raisin exposure, the best possible prognosis depends upon rapid and successful decontamination of the pet. If significant grape or raisin ingestion has occurred or is highly suspected, vomiting should be induced as soon as possible, followed by administration of activated charcoal to absorb the toxin.

The treatment beyond decontamination is renal (kidney) support with intravenous fluids. An IV catheter is placed, and fluids are administered in order to increase urine excretion of the toxin. Blood chemistry analysis will need to be assessed before, during, and after treatment to determine how much harm, if any, was done to the kidneys. Elevated blood-urea nitrogen, creatinine, phosphorous, and calcium levels are evidence of kidney damage.
Some animals may never have a reaction to grapes or raisins, but it is not worth the risk of permanent kidney damage or death to find out. Do not give these "people treats" to your pets, and keep them out of your pets' reach to avoid accidental ingestion.

CometScooterSnowball
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-18-2014, 03:33 PM


 
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I have heard of this for dogs. Depending on the dog's size, more than a very small amount grapes/raisins can cause problems. Pretty sure it doesn't apply to birds. Most birds love grapes and everyone I know gives them to their birds.

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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-18-2014, 03:35 PM
 
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Thanks for the heads up MissyBird! I hadn't heard that before, but I'll be giving Louie only organic seedless grapes from now on and talking with his vet about it too Thursday when he goes for checkup and nail trim. I hate to think he can never have grapes, he loves them so. Thanks!


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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-18-2014, 03:48 PM


 
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I am pretty sure that they are only talking about dogs with the grapes and raisins and not birds. Being in bird clubs we would certainly have heard about this being a problem with birds.
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-18-2014, 05:05 PM


 
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Yeah thats to do with dogs, my birds have always had grapes and raisins.
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-18-2014, 05:40 PM


 
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This seems a little alarmist to me. This has been the new thing with dogs. I don't know where the original research came from or where they came up with this conclusion--but really I am not buying into it. Besides, "Any ingestion of grapes or raisins should be considered an emergency and be brought to the attention of the veterinarian immediately." Really over reacting if a raisin falls on the floor and your dog gets it. My family and my husband's family both grow grapes (in europe) and one of their main pests are foxes, and feral dogs. My dog eats grapes all the time (I have young kids....it's the dog's job to clean up after them ) That is just my thoughts......

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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 03:30 PM


 
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Grapes (and raisins) can most definitely be dangerous for dogs and cats but not for birds. See this:
Grape_and_raisin_toxicity_in_dogs Grape_and_raisin_toxicity_in_dogs

Onions are not good either. See this: http://www.jlhweb.net/Boxermap/onions.html

Personally, I do not risk feeding any of my animals anything that might be dangerous.
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 05:12 PM


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow View Post
Thanks for the heads up MissyBird! I hadn't heard that before, but I'll be giving Louie only organic seedless grapes from now on and talking with his vet about it too Thursday when he goes for checkup and nail trim. I hate to think he can never have grapes, he loves them so. Thanks!
I love your sig pic. I didn't realize that Louie was a cobalt. I have noticed that Mina has lightened in overall color since she was a baby. She was almost midnight blue when I got her. Now she is more of a true blue and you can see some turquoise here and there.

Sorry to change the subject. Yes my dogs do not get grapes or raisins and my cat won't eat anything anyway, lol. Dogs also cannot have onions or chocolate. They are very toxic to them.

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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 03:21 PM


 
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I read that grapes are toxic for dogs.
And I wash the grapes for my linnies very long and carefully because of the pesticides against fungal infection.
My linnies get a little piece of grape every day.
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 06:17 PM
 
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I know some foods are toxic for birds. For years, seedless grapes I wash well given daily, cut into smaller pieces they may only eat 1 or 2 grapes at the most. I look for signs of fungus. It's rare but have seen one with a tiny spot of white fungus at the stem, those I pitch. Birds in the wild eat fruits and veggies they know what not to eat. Raisins I only use organic which doesn't have a preservative. My breeders give fresh fruit and veggies daily we just have to know what's safe.

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Last edited by gemini1; 03-20-2014 at 06:19 PM.
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 06:44 PM



 
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Definitely applies to dogs and cats, not birds My fiances Staffordshire bull terrier has eaten just about everything she shouldn't eat. You can hide it, she'll find it! She's coming up to 10 years now and she's had grapes and chocolate and everything in between. The chocolate was last Christmas. She climbed on to a table (for a fairly small, hefty and kinda old dog, that's astonishing!) and took a chocolate orange off the side! Rushed to the vets and she was fine. Unfortunately, that's not usually the case!

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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 08:56 PM
 
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All of this weird anxiety, hyper-specific and precise, changing every month, week, or day, leaves me wondering:

Do you people ever have time reserved to actually 'enjoy and cherish' your lives and your birds'? Or do you wander on the web, ever-vigilant, eager to find the next 'problem' to obsess upon, and hypothesize and proselytize, consume and presume, admonish and condemn, without anything but another's word to latch upon, continuing misinformation and lies until we all drown our parrots in dustbins because all is for naught?

You all need to calm down. Grapes?

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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-21-2014, 09:07 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks to everyone who responded with your thoughts and actions regarding grapes and birds. As someone who has only had birds that have eaten grapes for less than a year, it concerned me when I read our vet's newsletter in my email.

I feel much better now because of your answers and because they also send out a digital bird book for bird owners which we had also received when we took our boys in for their wellness checkup, (but I forgot that I had). It shows grapes in a bowl of fruit and has grapes listed as safe bird food in the book.

I just wish their newsletter had specified which animals instead of saying "pets", and I really didn't know they were an issue for dogs! Thanks again

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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-21-2014, 11:44 AM


 
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Yeah definitely not related to Birds.

Grapes are definitely bad for Dogs though. My Parents have grape vines in their back yard and the Dogs will go and eat them off the vine and they always get diarrhea afterwards. :S

Before we knew that they were bad for Dogs we would always give them to our first Dog, Sadie, and she got cancer at 6 years old and died.

Grapes are toxic to a Dog's Kidneys (the renal system), definitely not a thing you want them to have.



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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-21-2014, 02:23 PM


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deresy View Post
All of this weird anxiety, hyper-specific and precise, changing every month, week, or day, leaves me wondering:

Do you people ever have time reserved to actually 'enjoy and cherish' your lives and your birds'? Or do you wander on the web, ever-vigilant, eager to find the next 'problem' to obsess upon, and hypothesize and proselytize, consume and presume, admonish and condemn, without anything but another's word to latch upon, continuing misinformation and lies until we all drown our parrots in dustbins because all is for naught?

You all need to calm down. Grapes?

Yes, I have plenty of time to enjoy and cherish my birds. But I also make time (about two hours a day) to do research and believe when I tell you that it's not easy to fit it in my daily schedule!

I've had parrots since 1992 and we used to do all kinds of terrible things: feeding the wrong food, keeping them at the wrong light schedule, under the wrong lights, in small cages made with lead, no flight, etc. Sheesh, I even used to smoke in the same room they were! You name it, we did it! Why? Because we did not know any better. There was no internet and very little information in the libraries about these species so we used to congregate at the bird store on the weekends to compare notes, ask if anybody had had this or that problem, share experiences, etc. We also used to have a mentor but it wasn't enough and we did a lot of wrong things... and the birds suffered for it. So now I do a lot of research. I also worry a lot and work like a fiend to provide the best environment and diet possible for my birds. I consider it part of my responsibility as a bird keeper.
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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-21-2014, 03:13 PM
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Well said Bibi.

Cheers,

John.
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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-21-2014, 04:01 PM


 
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I like to collect and share knowledge in bird forums, and I'm thankful if people tell me that some food or equipment may not be bird safe.
I can't agree with Deresy's point of view.
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-21-2014, 04:25 PM



 
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If it weren't for this information being available to us, a lot more birds would have died by now than what already have thanks to people not taking the time to look into things. I think it's important to now exactly what you're doing and ask if you're unsure. That is what a forum is all about

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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-21-2014, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catalinadee View Post
If it weren't for this information being available to us, a lot more birds would have died by now than what already have thanks to people not taking the time to look into things. I think it's important to now exactly what you're doing and ask if you're unsure. That is what a forum is all about

Well said Daisy, my sentiments entirely.

I joined this forum to ask questions about things I had little or no experience with, and to date I'm more than happy with the advice I've received.

Cheers,

John.
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-21-2014, 07:29 PM


 
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Well said Daisy, my sentiments entirely.

I joined this forum to ask questions about things I had little or no experience with, and to date I'm more than happy with the advice I've received.

Cheers,

John.
I can't agree more. So much of what I know I learned online from knowledgeable people all over the world. We have to be responsible for ours and our pets' health and safety and that means being our own advocates and asking a lot of questions, researching things, getting all of the info available to us, and then making an educated decision, etc. There have been many times where doing that has saved my pet's life and/or saved them from undue suffering.

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