"Thinking on the Wing" article - Talk Parrots Forums

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post #1 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-26-2013, 12:17 AM Thread Starter
 
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"Thinking on the Wing" article

Has anyone else read this article by The Parrot University? http://theparrotuniversity.com/flight . What do you think about it?

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post #2 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-26-2013, 03:31 PM


 
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There is some very good knowledge on the site and well worth the read.
I have read it a few times and have also had some contact with Steve about flight and how they need time when young to make the brain connections to be able to think on the wing.
So yes I agree with what he has to say about this subject.
And if you think this is correct then it makes good logic that way too many birds are handicapped for life because they were clipped at too an early age. Not allowing them to develop the skills and brain connections to become good flyers.
Sure later in life they can go on to learn to cope with flight. But this is not the same.
As the brain has already fully developed. So flight skills will be limited.

If you watch some birds they, sight where they are going to fly to before take off. And they may not make flight changes once airborne.
These will be the ones at high risk of flying into things or not being good at landing where they wanted.
Flight is a very complicated skill.
But a bird that is an accomplished flyer can duck and weave at will, some can even hover in mid air.


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post #3 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-27-2013, 05:09 PM



 
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Great article I don't think I'll ever be clipping birds again. Flight is what makes them who they are
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post #4 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-28-2013, 08:24 PM


 
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I love this article, and have linked it several times other places.
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post #5 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-28-2013, 10:19 PM
 
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love it never read it before but so true!!

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post #6 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-28-2013, 11:55 PM


 
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Garance.
I think we are on the same wave length.
Good to see BJKnight pop up without any nasty comments. I do not get along with her too much, as I am a radical.
I am in the poop on another forum for saying my thoughts on clipping birds when they first come into a home to settle them in.
I copied and posted Steves comments as well as my own thoughts and got slammed for it.
Somewhere on his site should be a pic of Angel in full flight. He was going to use it to show the flight feather layout, as it is one of the best shots that show this.
Angel. Which I am sure I will of posted before. but love showing her off, as I think of her as "poetry in motion".


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post #7 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-29-2013, 12:10 AM


 
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Bailey (BJKnight) is pro-flight as well, actually.

I think the thing we have to be careful of, as advocates of flight, is coming off as too fanatical. That will just drive new people away when they seek advice. I may be sitting at my desk ready to smash my head against the wall when people talk about clipping, but in reality I think it does more good to exercise some restraint and appear more moderate in order to get through to people.

All I can do is share my experiences. My birds are FAR happier and healthier flighted than clipped, AND I have made major progress gaining the trust of a skittish bird by leaving her flighted. I can refute most pro-clipping arguments because most don't make too much sense. Hopefully if I calmly share my thoughts and experiences I will get through to some people who are on the fence. And that's what matters, for the birds.

Bottom line is, birds are meant to fly. They have wings, the way we have legs. I think it is unfair to rob them of that. But sadly you can't get through to people on that logic alone.

That is such a beautiful photo, by the way.
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post #8 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-30-2013, 02:22 AM Thread Starter
 
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I am glad there are a lot of pro flight people here. Your Cockatiel is really beautiful Clive.

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post #9 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-30-2013, 06:37 PM


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonchild View Post
Bailey (BJKnight) is pro-flight as well, actually.

I think the thing we have to be careful of, as advocates of flight, is coming off as too fanatical. That will just drive new people away when they seek advice. I may be sitting at my desk ready to smash my head against the wall when people talk about clipping, but in reality I think it does more good to exercise some restraint and appear more moderate in order to get through to people.

All I can do is share my experiences. My birds are FAR happier and healthier flighted than clipped, AND I have made major progress gaining the trust of a skittish bird by leaving her flighted. I can refute most pro-clipping arguments because most don't make too much sense. Hopefully if I calmly share my thoughts and experiences I will get through to some people who are on the fence. And that's what matters, for the birds.

Bottom line is, birds are meant to fly. They have wings, the way we have legs. I think it is unfair to rob them of that. But sadly you can't get through to people on that logic alone.

That is such a beautiful photo, by the way.
I agree. The article is good, but may come off as too pro-flight, which will not really get anywhere in convincing people who clip to change. I agree with it, but then again I like to leave my birds free flighted.

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post #10 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-30-2013, 06:59 PM


 
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I fully agree with the article and I don't think it comes off as too strong at all. But on forums, I've found that being too "rabidly" anti-clipping usually results in people thinking you're overly preachy or closed-minded.
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post #11 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-31-2013, 05:39 AM


 
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It is not a matter of how you put things sometimes, as to some it will never make any difference no matter how you put it or how factual it is.
A closed shop is a closed shop.Some people have done things their way all their life, so why would they think about changing. it is a shame when they push those ideas, instead of moving with the times and keeping an open mind.
Funny thing is that it is the pro clipping ones that get very testy when you even mention clipping.


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post #12 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-31-2013, 07:29 AM
 
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Well all people are allowed their own opinions although for many, full flight is the obvious option, others have reasonably valid reasons for clipped.

i am pro-flight myself but some people's reasons for clipping do make sense.

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post #13 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-31-2013, 03:48 PM


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ollieandme View Post
Well all people are allowed their own opinions although for many, full flight is the obvious option, others have reasonably valid reasons for clipped.

i am pro-flight myself but some people's reasons for clipping do make sense.

I have no problems with opinions based on facts, it is when those opinions are not sound, is the problem.
We have been down this track elsewhere.
And sure personal choice is one thing, but that does not make it right. And when a young or first time bird owner comes on the net for good advice and the pro clipping people say clip to slow that bird down until it settles in I feel and others agree with me, is the wrong approach to bird keeping.
It is only a matter of taking the time to read up on Positive Reinforcement Training to start to understand that clipping is dominance training and should have no place in the bird world.
The bird should not be allowed out of the cage until it has had time to settle and become comfortable in it's new home and owner. A relaxed bird should fly in a controlled manner. Unless it does not have those flight skills. And this could then be traced back to exactly what Steve has to say about them being clipped too early in life. handicapping that bird for the rest of it's life.
If this was not the case how do you think I manage to introduce new birds into my home? And having huge amounts of glass windows they do not fly into. Over 60 panes in the conservatory to start with.
Simply put they are relaxed and not trying to escape, when I let them fly free in the house.


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post #14 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-31-2013, 07:02 PM
 
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It's a very interesting article. Our Jack loves to be with us and liked having his wings. My husband likes taking him outside especially after bath time to dry off.. He would get chilled inside. He hangs out on the ledge by our front door while we just hang out . He never moves from there, and gave us a scare when he did. He flew around the house to the neighbors front door. We've since clipped his wings but he can still attain a decent amount of flight. I hated that we had to do that but we want him to be safer outside when he can't wear his flightsuit.. Like when he gets a bath and is drying off. It's a chance for him to spend time with us outside of his cage. I prefer fully flighted myself


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post #15 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-31-2013, 07:37 PM


 
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It's very dangerous taking even a clipped bird outside without a harness. You'd be surprised at how far a gust of wind can take him, or even how far he can propel himself if he gets spooked by something. And then, being flightless, if he ever did get away he'd be very easy prey for predators. I've read horror stories.

Besides, I feel like being flighted inside the home would be far better for him, even if it meant never going outside. But since he does know how to wear a harness, he can have the best of both worlds! Simply don't take him out after he's had a bath, or at other times when it's inconvenient for him to be harnessed.
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post #16 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-31-2013, 07:52 PM


 
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Thank you Moonchild for pointing that out.

It can depend on the bird in question and the amount they are clipped.
I say this as Dexter (Alexandrine) flops to the ground with No Control at all. Poor little mite. Tail and Primaries on both wings either clipped or failed due to stress bars. All he can do is butt land.

But on the other hand I have seen a Cockatiel who had all Primaries and Tail feathers clipped fly around inside and know she had flown outside as well.

So yes fully clipped birds if they get a fright may not even need a breeze to fly far enough away from you to get into danger.

I know of one (clipped) in recent times that got away flew over the fence and run out of steam, just to land in front of a dog. All over just in the blink of an eye.


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post #17 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-31-2013, 10:38 PM
 
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That's for the concern guys. It did spook us as he was fully flighted. He definitely has been clipped and he can still have a decent amount of flight. We keep our house cold, and he can chill easily in there after a bath. We tried and poor baby shivered uncontrollably, so we took him outside he stopped shivering so much. Our porch is not an open area, so unless there's a tropical storm we don't get gusts of winds there. Everything was normal, then he chirped and took off. Our porch is surrounded by brick on three sides and there was no disturbances apparently to cause him to take off. He definitely gets his flightsuit all other times. He really hates his flightsuit lol, but it keeps him occupied. He flies or attempts to more with it on tho lol. Dad likes his outside time with his boy for sure, and thankfully he's lessened the times he takes him out. I wish there was another option for him after his baths.. He loves to soak himself when he bathes himself. I mean he is drenched from beak to tail lol. I thought about using a warm dryer but I think it would spook him..


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post #18 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-01-2013, 02:20 PM


 
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You could work on recall training.
Another idea is swap out the Flight suit to a Aviator harness and see if this is excepted better than the Flight Suit.

I would try the hair dryer. I have only tried it on a few and they were ok with it.
If I was washing a bird for some reason I would towel off then see if I could blow dry them a bit.
Caution though check to make sure there is No PTFE in the dryer. Not that I am sure about this being used in hair dryers. It has been mentioned somewhere before.


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post #19 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-01-2013, 08:51 PM


 
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I think it is a really good article. Makes valid points. But ultimately I have to disagree that it is safer to have flighted pet birds and that flying is the only defining quality of a parrot. I have been on these forums about 11 mths and have heard countless stories of flighted birds getting spooked and flying into something and dying from neck breaks or drowning in a toilet or sink, carriers falling apart, doors open, going thru doggy doors, and the bird flying away, sometimes in the middle of winter, etc. It's just horrible and they all could have been prevented. Parrots are birds with many definig qualities and flying in the wild is essential for their safety, survival, and ability to get food. In captivity they they don't have to be able to fly to survive and get food. So it is all subjective.

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post #20 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-01-2013, 11:44 PM


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladyscarletthawk View Post
We keep our house cold, and he can chill easily in there after a bath. We tried and poor baby shivered uncontrollably, so we took him outside he stopped shivering so much. I mean he is drenched from beak to tail lol. I thought about using a warm dryer but I think it would spook him..


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What I use for my birds in the winter (my house gets cold, but they still enjoy bathing in their water dish) is getting a heat lamp for them. I use the kind that replicate the sun. They sell them for reptiles in petstores. When I come home in the afternoon from work, I turn on the heat lamp and all the birds flock to it and take turns "light bathing". They then all go take their baths in the fresh cold water. They really seem to enjoy the heat lamp/light.

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