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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-06-2013, 07:41 PM Thread Starter


 
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How do you define tame or bonded?

I am curious about definitions of tame and semi-tame? Are there different levels of tameness in your opinion? If so, what do they look like?

What about bonded defined?

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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-06-2013, 08:11 PM
 
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To me, tame means that you open the cage door and the bird comes running out to see you. Semi-tame means that they don't come running to see you but don't bite you if you take them out. And bonded means that two birds like each other and are hanging out together and preening each other.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-07-2013, 12:56 AM


 
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I think it's open to interpretation.
I mean, for the most part all of my cockatiels are "tame" -- not afraid of humans, view them as flockmates (or at least the ones they know). I do have one who absolutely hates hands and doesn't like perching on skin. However, she goes out of her way to come perch on me and is not at all afraid of my face. Is she "tame"? She can't really be handled, but she's certainly a lot tamer than some random wild bird. She likes me, I can tell. But she's still fearful due to past trauma. Now, as far as bonded -- I have a flock bond with all of them. Some, I have more of a personal bond with; they want to be on or with me frequently, want me to preen them, etc. A couple love attention but want me to seek them out to offer it, rather than coming to me. I only have two birds that are strongly bonded with each other, my "couple" Moon and Freya. The rest have a casual flock bond at best. Some don't like each other at all.

In short, I think there are definitely degrees of tameness and "bondedness." (so not a word lol)
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-07-2013, 04:11 AM



 
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I think we put a lot of human words on to birds that really don't apply. Bonding is a big one of those in my own personal opinion. I think they do 'bond' with us to a certain degree but the bond between a person and a bird can never been the same as a bird and another bird. I think if a parrot is bonded with you, then they are treating you like their flock mate but there are certain needs within that that we simply cannot replicate ourselves. I don't quite know what it is. I think that parrots make do with us until say, a potential mate comes along (that is a bird). I think it also depends on the individual bird. A hand raised baby that wasn't socialised with other birds or was hand reared on its own is going to think that they are us, or we are them. So yes, I think they could bond to us and see us as their mat. A parent raised bird, or a bird hand reared in a group, will most likely prefer another birds company over our own and so I don't think that they can be truly bonded to us, they simply enjoy our company

I hate using the word 'tame' for any animal... I really don't know what it is that grinds me up so much! A tame bird is one that lets you do most things with it and wants your attention, a semi tame bird may want your attention but is hands off for the most part. Semi tame birds seem to like shoulders and/or knees a lot as opposed to hands! I think any bird can be 'tame' though. They just need working on. I don't see them as being tamed though, more like we've come to a compromise

I hope that makes sense. It's hard to write it down, what I'm trying to say
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-07-2013, 08:19 AM


 
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my mom has two cockatiels one she can get out and he likes to ride on her shoulder he is tame the other will not let you touch him he will bite if you try and he is not tame. now my mom does not do a lot with her birds she rarely gets them out. now my birds i have 5 birds at the moment my CAG, GCC, and love bird all love to be with me i hold them play with them and talk to them yes they would be considered tame however i consider them part of the family now i have 2 budgies that we have been working with they were not tame when we got them. now i would say they are part of the family but not an active part. most would say they are semi tame now and i say not an active part of the family because while we can get them out and hold them they do not bite but they have not developed a bond with us yet they still would rather be somewhere else than with us but like the millet we offer lol. we have made progress though tame in most people minds are when a bird or animal enjoys being with you and does not bite when you go to touch it. semi tame is when the animals will not rush to see you but may do some of the things a tame animal or bird would like hang out or not bite. and not tame is when the animal would rather see you bleed than come near you. with me i see my birds as part of the family and active in the family , as part of the family an inactive, or as new to the family but still a member of the family i know this is probably confusing but i have never really thought as my birds being tame or not i have always considered them part of the family

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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-07-2013, 10:40 AM Thread Starter


 
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Originally Posted by lisaowens View Post
i know this is probably confusing but i have never really thought as my birds being tame or not i have always considered them part of the family
I consider all my pets as family members as well. About active or inactive, I get that. For me the more I can interact with one of my pets, the greater the connection will be and than the more "active" they are as a family member. So yeah, I get what you are saying. It is like a betta versus a dog. I love and care for them both and they are are part of the family--obviously it is harder to connect to a betta than it is a dog. So the betta is more of an inactive family member, lol.

Keep working with your budgies, they'll come around. Mine is an absolute doll.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-07-2013, 10:42 AM


 
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Originally Posted by 4thebirds View Post
I consider all my pets as family members as well. About active or inactive, I get that. For me the more I can interact with one of my pets, the greater the connection will be and than the more "active" they are as a family member. So yeah, I get what you are saying. It is like a betta versus a dog. I love and care for them both and they are are part of the family--obviously it is harder to connect to a betta than it is a dog. So the betta is more of an inactive family member, lol.

Keep working with your budgies, they'll come around. Mine is an absolute doll.
thank you i will they are getting better just taking time

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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-09-2013, 09:13 AM


 
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That's an excellent question. I think a lot of confusion arises from differences in people's definition of "tame". I think my linnies are tame because when I talk to them they look at me and "talk" back. They also fly to me and hang out with me if out of their cage, but they are hand-shy and don't like my fingers (unless they are holding millet ) I think of my canaries as semi-tame because I can get really close to the cage and look at them without them freaking out and when out and about they'll do fly-bys close to my head, but I can't touch them.

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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-10-2013, 10:46 PM


 
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SEMI TAME:
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-11-2013, 05:58 AM
 
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Well i'd say mine are tame. But like other people, i kind of just see them as friends and part of the family!!
None of them are remotely scared or intimidated by humans so i guess that constitutes tame
I'm not sure if Bjorn's bonded to me or not - he always flock calls if i leave the room though and flys to me all the time.

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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-11-2013, 01:22 PM
 
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I agree it's open to interpretation. To me, tame means not trying to attack you and not terrified, it does not require touch. Mizu was tame, IMO, but would not allow hands. She would come to me for kisses, climb on my shoulder, come on her playstand but was very independent and did not like hands. Bonded is more a human term, but "bonded" to me implies complete and total trust between you and the bird. Mizu was tame - trusted me but could not overcome her fear of hands from her abused past. Goober is "bonded" in that I can do anything to her (flip her upside down, pet her anywhere, etc) and she has complete trust in me.



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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-20-2013, 07:00 AM
 
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I think there are different levels of tameness. Neither Nod nor Tonks are completely tame. Tonks is actually afraid of people completely, which I'm trying to get her out of. She's more bonded with Nod than with me. The breeder I got her from had some sort of forced taming with her when she was little. He clipped her wings and forced her into his hands, trying to show her that there's no where to go but his hands. I couldn't continue this so mostly she stays away from me. She's starting to eat millet from my hand though =]

Nod I would consider semitame. He's more bonded with me than Tonks, and he loves people. He just doesn't like hands. Apparently one of his earlier owners didn't have hands. At all. So he never got used to them? Anyway he'll sit on my shoulder and he loves sitting on my head while I do the house work. :P He just won't have anything to do with hands.
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-20-2013, 02:02 PM


 
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I think that tame is when an animal is not stressed out by a human presence (I don't think one can use 'afraid' because, for example, wild-caught zons are not 'afraid' of humans -and they will prove it by flying out and biting the crap out of you- but they are extremely vigilant and stressed out when confined in the same room with one). I don't think that whether that animal allows you to touch it or not is what defines its tameness. Then there is familiarity and trust as when the animal does not allow you to handle/touch him but knows you will not hurt it and will not only allow you to clean, feed, water, etc without attacking you but will also look for your protection and/or company when in an unfamiliar situation or place (as in the vet). And then there is bonding and that has all kinds of levels, too, from flockmate where they would welcome you, perch on you, take treats from your hand, etc but there is no deep love for you as when they want to be constantly near you, touch/kiss/preen you and for you to do the same to them. And, finally, there is the bond that some individuals of large species have with humans when they think the human is their mate and although this love is as deep as it comes, it's not a healthy love as it can never be fulfilled.
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-20-2013, 02:16 PM Thread Starter


 
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I think that tame is when an animal is not stressed out by a human presence (I don't think one can use 'afraid' because, for example, wild-caught zons are not 'afraid' of humans -and they will prove it by flying out and biting the crap out of you- but they are extremely vigilant and stressed out when confined in the same room with one). I don't think that whether that animal allows you to touch it or not is what defines its tameness. Then there is familiarity and trust as when the animal does not allow you to handle/touch him but knows you will not hurt it and will not only allow you to clean, feed, water, etc without attacking you but will also look for your protection and/or company when in an unfamiliar situation or place (as in the vet). And then there is bonding and that has all kinds of levels, too, from flockmate where they would welcome you, perch on you, take treats from your hand, etc but there is no deep love for you as when they want to be constantly near you, touch/kiss/preen you and for you to do the same to them. And, finally, there is the bond that some individuals of large species have with humans when they think the human is their mate and although this love is as deep as it comes, it's not a healthy love as it can never be fulfilled.
I think from what I read here in your post, I would say my birds think I am familiar, trust me, and consider me a flockmate. But they don't have to be near me all the time.

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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-21-2013, 12:45 PM


 
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I think from what I read here in your post, I would say my birds think I am familiar, trust me, and consider me a flockmate. But they don't have to be near me all the time.
And I would say that is the healthiest form of bond that can exist between a human and birds.
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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-21-2013, 01:39 PM


 
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Originally Posted by petiteoiseau View Post
I think that tame is when an animal is not stressed out by a human presence (I don't think one can use 'afraid' because, for example, wild-caught zons are not 'afraid' of humans -and they will prove it by flying out and biting the crap out of you- but they are extremely vigilant and stressed out when confined in the same room with one). I don't think that whether that animal allows you to touch it or not is what defines its tameness. Then there is familiarity and trust as when the animal does not allow you to handle/touch him but knows you will not hurt it and will not only allow you to clean, feed, water, etc without attacking you but will also look for your protection and/or company when in an unfamiliar situation or place (as in the vet). And then there is bonding and that has all kinds of levels, too, from flockmate where they would welcome you, perch on you, take treats from your hand, etc but there is no deep love for you as when they want to be constantly near you, touch/kiss/preen you and for you to do the same to them. And, finally, there is the bond that some individuals of large species have with humans when they think the human is their mate and although this love is as deep as it comes, it's not a healthy love as it can never be fulfilled.
You have done well with this.
And I do agree 100% with your last comment.

(And, finally, there is the bond that some individuals of large species have with humans when they think the human is their mate and although this love is as deep as it comes, it's not a healthy love).

But it does not only refer to large species, as any bird taken from the nest early could end up like this.
I feel this is what can happen when babies are taken from the nest hand fed and raised. They can become so bonded to their human Humanised I call it. That they do not know how to act like a bird. This maybe acceptable while they are with the same human and nothing changes. But when things do change it can have drastic effect on the bird. Which can lead to stress, plucking, social problems, and health issues.

It is much better I feel to let the parents raise them and just spend time handling them from day one. They have a better grip on reality and this makes for better life skills and understanding. And they can be just as tame and bonded to a human.


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Last edited by clawnz; 12-21-2013 at 01:45 PM.
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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-21-2013, 01:55 PM Thread Starter


 
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You have done well with this.
And I do agree 100% with your last comment.

(And, finally, there is the bond that some individuals of large species have with humans when they think the human is their mate and although this love is as deep as it comes, it's not a healthy love).

But it does not only refer to large species, as any bird taken from the nest early could end up like this.
I feel this is what can happen when babies are taken from the nest hand fed and raised. They can become so bonded to their human Humanised I call it. That they do not know how to act like a bird. This maybe acceptable while they are with the same human and nothing changes. But when things do change it can have drastic effect on the bird. Which can lead to stress, plucking, social problems, and health issues.

It is much better I feel to let the parents raise them and just spend time handling them from day one. They have a better grip on reality and this makes for better life skills and understanding. And they can be just as tame and bonded to a human.
I agree. My sister adopted a parrotlet off of craigslist and he was over bonded to a human and had a lot of issues to start off. He plucked himself badly when he went home with my sister. He has grown his feathers back but has issues still with screaming for her etc.

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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-22-2013, 07:05 AM


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clawnz View Post
You have done well with this.
And I do agree 100% with your last comment.

(And, finally, there is the bond that some individuals of large species have with humans when they think the human is their mate and although this love is as deep as it comes, it's not a healthy love).

But it does not only refer to large species, as any bird taken from the nest early could end up like this.
I feel this is what can happen when babies are taken from the nest hand fed and raised. They can become so bonded to their human Humanised I call it. That they do not know how to act like a bird. This maybe acceptable while they are with the same human and nothing changes. But when things do change it can have drastic effect on the bird. Which can lead to stress, plucking, social problems, and health issues.

It is much better I feel to let the parents raise them and just spend time handling them from day one. They have a better grip on reality and this makes for better life skills and understanding. And they can be just as tame and bonded to a human.
Yes, I agree. The 'mate' bonding happens when the babies are taken from their parents and hand-fed by humans so early that they never had a chance to learn they are birds. And it can definitely happen to small species (like a Senegal, for example) but I think it's much more common with larger ones. It usually happens more to lone birds, too (I guess because as they grow up without seeing any other bird, they become even more confused).
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