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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-03-2014, 04:23 PM Thread Starter
 
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Need help with my new black capped conure.

I've written about him before when we first got him. Not sure how old he is, but he is young. Husband "rescued" him for a pet store about 4 weeks ago. From the store, I found out that he was hand-aggressive (after calling them to tell them how excited I was b/c he'd begged for head scritches from us on the first day.
He isn't finger-tamed and is cage aggressive. I think he may be going through a phase. He's certainly smarter than my budgies and watches every thing. He especially likes to watch TV. His favorite spot is one near the bottom of the cage where he can watch TV (for reals!) across our foyer and into the living room. And, he's a great watch dog as his cage also is close to our breakfast room window.

I have him on a 4-hr daily UV/UB light through the middle of the day. The first day he was delighted with it and couldn't keep from looking at it and began hanging on the side of the cage where it's hung, and then immediately began to take a bath in his water cup. *silly little bird* It's now lost it's curiosity content, but I think the addition of this light has added greatly to his quality of life considering how he reacted to it the first day.

The problem is that all of a sudden when I'm scritching him, he let's me scritch for a millisecond and then he wants to groom me, but he grooms so hard. I try not to jerk my hand away as it makes him hostile, I can tell by his body language. So, I just go "ah-ah" in a loud voice, which causes him to pause. I can see him thinking. He tries again to get a scritch and then immediately begins to bite my finger. I've given him hangnails and such to work on, but I've run out off them. I've began using pieces of millet through the bars as a reward to come for a treat. Now, his behavior has accelerated into his taking the millet, but sometimes he tries to take a nip from my finger. I can tell from the raised hackles, he's being aggressive. Some days, it's just fine. Then, the next day, or the next treat time, he's at it again. I don't want to make this worse. I've never had an aggressive bird before. My pionus parrot was a sweetie from the get-go and loved to groom my eyebrows.

I've never had a single bird, not part of a flock, not be loose at their desire(except for a tiel that refused to come out of the cage).This little fella, when I let him out of the cage on top of his cage, is just fine. I tried to see if he'd get up on a perch stick, and he attacked my hand. So, now I just let him explore the top of the cage and eventually he gets back on the inside of the cage door to explore that and I close it with him on it.
Since I have rescue dogs/cats (which aren't allowed into this part of the house....but I'm afraid they might get into it), I don't let him out at will as I've done with other birds.

So.....my question, what are the suggestions to handle this new aggression? I've thought also that he might have been taken from his mother before he got any socialization from her on even just "bird" behavior. Is that possible?

I've read some of the threads, and will continue to look for ideas on them. Thanx.
EDIT: And, he's quite demanding for attention. I purposefully do not respond when he calls out, but wait until he quiet. Then, he seems overexcited, pacing around his cage, crawling around on it, and wants immediately to be scritched which starts the whole thing over again. Could he just be that needy?

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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-03-2014, 05:57 PM



 
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Conures are prone to being nippy anyway. My black capped seem to seek out my fingers at any given chance! Clicker and target training really helps. It builds up a nice bond that is hands off to start with

If he was hand reared, he was probably pulled before opening his eyes. He probably doesn't know he's a bird. I leave mine with the parents until they're weaned and longer. I do not feel the need for hand raising birds unless necessary. It was recently banned somewhere... I think the Netherlands but I could be wrong!

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-03-2014, 07:19 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, catalinadee. I was hoping you'd be one of the responders.
He's definitely more nippy than any of my former birds. Although, last year we babysat a SunConure over a 2-week period, which my husband absolutely fell in love with. All she wanted to do was cuddle with him and would crawl under the neck of his sweater and just sit there with her little head sticking out as he watched TV. She'd nap with him, too. Sweetest little sight possible. When she heard his voice, she'd climb down from whereever she was and waddle to him. He actually cried when the owners picked her up. She wasn't nippy at all. so, I wasn't prepared for this one to be.

I did let him out of his cage this afternoon to ramble around and explore the outside. He actually stepped up onto a perch stick from the cage door where he'd climbed out to come outside. So, he's learned that much since the first few tries. *progress!* But, he was paddling as fast as he could down it to bite me. *the little stinker* I got him on top b/f he could. Then, he'd climb down the side of the cage where I was sitting and chat with me in his greeek-y little voice. My face holds no threat to him at all. I need to start touching my face with my hand so he can see the hands don't hurt the face.

All this is to say that he was much less restless when I put him back inside (after he'd climbed on the inside of the cage door), and was less bitey when I fed him some millet.

Thanks for the info on hand-reared birds. He may not know he's a bird.
I'm going to try to let him wear off some steam in this fashion more often to see if he can learn to relax more so he can learn better. He just seems so restless at times, switching his body from side to side like he's dancing. I do the same thing as I repeat his words back to him. He watches me closely.....I can see those wheels turning. Such entertainment.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-03-2014, 09:24 PM
 
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T star with, you mentioned that you wrote about this bird before but I missed that one so I will just go with this and may or may not cover something already covered.

It doesn't seem to me that you are spending any time bonding with this bird or getting to know him. This bird came from a pet store, rescued was what you called it. So I can surmise that the conditions were at best not good. He comes to his new home where he is left all alone for long periods of time. I don't know if he has toys to amuse himself with or not or even if he was ever taught what a toy is and hoe to play with one. What I do know is that he is a very social bird who needs to spend a lot of time with you and that he is scared.

Yes he is that needy for attention and he is screaming to you to tell you that he is alone and afraid, and you are ignoring him, so he is now alone and afraid in a strange place and he is now getting angry because he knows that he is not loved. You are messing up big time with this bird, but this can be changed if you will take the time.
To start with he is going to need at least two or three hours of out of cage time to just hang out around you and you need to take the time to start bonding with him. You understand that he is a baby and you are his parents, so he counts on you just the same as he would his actual parrot parents. He also needs one on one time with you and under the present circumstances you both need to learn some thing from/ about each other. He need to learn that you do love him and that he can trust you and count on you to listen to him and care for him. You need to learn just how smart he really is but that will take some time but you do need to be observant and learn some of his body language and you will need to learn what his favorite foods are. You will use his two or three most favorite foods as treats for him.

Take 2 or 3 times a day about 10 or 15 minutes each time for the following:

you enter the space where his cage is watching him. As you approach his cage notice when he starts to get nervous or starts to move away from you in his cage, when he does, stop, don't move any closer and now you talk to him in a calm and soft voice. It doesn't really matter what you say, I usually tell them what a good bird they are, how much I love them, how happy I am that they are part of my family, how I am looking forward to how our lives will be together, things of this nature. But you can talk about
Einstein's theory of relativity if you want. After a few days you will reach his cage. Now you can place 3 or 4 different foods on a flat or shallow dish and make note of what food he eats first, second and so on. After the third time you will have a list of 3 number one foods and so on. On the forth time , do the same thing using only foods 1 and 2 from your lists, note what foods he takes first and second, these foods will be reserved for treats only.
Now, your talks can progress to where you approach his cage talking to him, and after a few minutes put a treat just inside of his cage where he can get it. Continue to talk while he eats it, after a few more minutes offer him the treat through the bars of the cage and continue talking to him. you may run out of time before he comes for the treat and if so just put it inside the cage and leave it for him. After a few times he will begin to come and take the treat from you.
Now you have a good beginning on a relationship based on love and trust. You will have began to show him that you want him and love him and that you will not hurt him, you have begun to earn his trust. This is the point where you can begin teaching him targeting and step up.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-04-2014, 07:16 AM Thread Starter
 
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Wrong, Wolf. You are assuming waaayyyy too much, obviously with no information or you wouldn't have said what you've said. You are a bit scoldy in tone w/o much information to go on and are assuming the worst. Look up my previous posts. They are on my ID.

Where in the world do you get that he spends time alone for hours a day??? Or, that I'm ignoring him??? I'm messing up big time with this bird??? Where do you get this divined information?
Let me clarify: I do spend time with him several times a day, sitting in front of his cage, talking to him, and making sounds which we pass back and forth. I have a chair in front of his cage where I sit about a dozen times a day to talk to him. Additionally, I pass through the room where he and the 3 budgies have their cages multiple times a day to go into the kitchen, talking to him and he answers back. I've done it so much, in fact, that when he sees me he begins with the tutting sound I use to let the budgies know I'm approaching so they won't be scared when I appear. Then, he and I "tut" back and forth for a while. What i found amazing is that he began talking the very first week I had him, obviously from my spending time with him, repeating what I've said to him. That's where got his name: "Baby"....b/c by the end of the first week or so, he started greeting me with "Hi, Baby" when he saw me approaching.

His cage is full of toys, two huggies, a swing, and 2 play station/platforms with toys attached above them, a box in the bottom of his cage with shredded paper from my paper shredder, and multiple types of perches (wood, cloth, branches). Please read my previous posts. This is not my first bird. I can't let him outside all the time (if you notice) b/c I have other animals in the house, which are rescues as well. I've had him for all of 4 weeks. I hand feed him millet about a half-dozen times daily. The tx he received at the pet store is what has made him hand aggressive. That's why my husband bought him.....to rescue him. His appearance has improved immensely. He's zipped up his poor little tail feathers which looked like ragged sticks and were almost non-existant when he arrived. He looks like a completely different bird now and is quite proud of his appearance.
Excuse my tone, but I just find your overly critical response unhelpful. I left another forum before joining here 4 weeks ago b/c of answers such as yours, which forum I had not realized that I had had the exact same experience with about 6 years ago with the same critical attitude, assuming the worst. Maybe you are a member of that forum, as well?

And, he certainly IS NOT anxious or nervous when I approach his cage. You know why I know? He stretches his wings, and starts preening when I'm sitting with him, and stretching his neck up and saying something like "zooook". He already knows his name and responds with it when I approach: "Hi, baby."

Additionally, responding to a bird (or any animal) immediately when it's demanding your attention, instead of waiting until they are quiet to respond, is rewarding bad behavior and it just then escalates. This is a basic parenting rule. I have 4 grown children.

Another idea occurred to me last night (I spend quite a bit of time thinking about this bird and the other rescue animals I have), I'm going to start playing soft music in the bird room and block his view of the TV today. Maybe all the sound, action on the TV screen is gearing him up. New approaches get new behaviors (sometimes).

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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-04-2014, 08:44 AM



 
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I do not think that you should come running when he's crying out for you. As you have already said, you'll only encourage the behaviours that are unwanted

You also did state that this bird is certainly not afraid. You're not invading his personal space when he is out of his cage, he's confident enough to come and seek you out! That is exactly how my black capped was. So very sassy!

The reason I mentioned target training, and by all means take it further and go into trick training, is because that definitely does help him burn off steam. If you can get his diet good, train him often, keep it up with the toys and spend quality time with him as you have been, I'm sure he will come around If he is flighted that is even better (you probably already said if he was or wasn't but if I scroll up now I will lose what I'm thinking haha) because you can work on recall with him. Poop that bird out and he will be much easier to get on with

Again, I don't know if you said whether or not you were putting your hands in and around his cage but for the sake of your fingers I wouldn't risk it. That's the barrier he doesn't want you to cross. It's his safe zone and his comfort. It's also his territory. When he sees your hands on there he's thinking "do you mind!?" and when you put them in to get him out, well, then that's gunna get you bitten! I decided with all of my birds that I would let them come out on their own terms unless I absolutely had to get them out (for instance, an emergency vet trip). Birds love that respect you give them

How do you feel when you're hanging out with him? Are you nervous of getting bitten? If you show him that you're nervous, he will use that energy and again turn it into an unwanted behaviour. They can read us like books. Even if you're feeling low, or you're scared of him, act like you aren't. Once he knows that he doesn't threaten you he will most likely back down a little

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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-04-2014, 09:11 AM


 
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I am glad that it was nothing but a misunderstanding and that you are spending time with him but, in Wolf's defense, your posting was easily misconstrued. I know you mentioned previous postings of yours but, personally, I never check anybody's previous postings, and I also thought you were not giving him enough attention. Especially when you said that you were ignoring his calling for you. I know that this is a very common advice given to people with birds that scream but, in my personal opinion and experience, although it might work, it doesn't do it for the right reason. By this I mean that it is entirely possible that ignoring the screams will result in the bird stopping them but it's done because the bird resigns itself to the fact that, when he asks for company, it will be denied and that screaming is futile so, eventually, he stops doing it (or not -LOL). It's a form of flooding and I am against any type of training that uses this method. I've taken in several screamers (I mostly take in only birds that have 'issues' and, as we all know, screaming is a common one for parrots) but I don't have a single screamer now and the only thing I do is reassure them that they can count on me by paying attention to them when they need it. To me, a bird screaming is like a baby crying and I will not ignore either one because it's a sign of a need that is going unfulfilled (I'm a grandmother and you know how grandmothers are -LOL).

Now, I am not criticizing you and I hope you don't take offense to my comment but I think that passing through and sitting down many times a day in front of his cage would not count as reassuring or even 'company' for a young bird which is, possibly, still a baby, and which has been neglected not only for months but also at a crucial development period of its life (early 'childhood'). He needs reassurance and I think that's why he is screaming and, when he doesn't get it, he gets frustrated and this is what makes him bite you. I might be wrong, it's hard to 'hit the nail on the head' when it comes to evaluating a behavior and giving advice from an email but, speaking in a general way, the idea is for the human to spend 2 to 3 hours doing nothing but just sitting close and talking, singing, whistling, whatever. I am convinced is the close, one-on-one attention and quiet presence for hours that gives them the feeling of companionship and security. This is not needed with every single bird but it is with the ones that have been neglected and I recommend it for all new birds.

I also would not just give him millet so often and without him 'earning' it. Mind you, I am not one to advocate only rewarding when training for tricks, quite the contrary! I hate it when people do this. But a high value item (which millet is for small species) should be reserved for rewarding good behavior or the absence of bad. I give my birds treats for no good reason (VERY sparingly, actually) but, when they first come, they get them only when I want to reward a good behavior or the absence of a bad one. Problem is, when there is a new bird and he gets rewarded, then everybody else would get one, too, but, the way I look at it, as long as they are been 'good' it's OK.

Timing the interaction is also important because birds react better when you follow a 'natural' schedule (meaning the one they all follow in the wild) so I would let him out for 4 or 5 hours a day in two shifts, a couple of hours or so after breakfast, bath, preening - back into the cage for his noon rest - out again at around 2 or 3 pm for another 2 or 3 hours (more to make it all the way to dinner time if at all possible).

As to biting, I think it's mostly frustration (don't forget this is a 'child' bird that has been neglected) and that you might have interacted with him a bit too soon. I always wait them out and just interact verbally with them while in quarantine, and that lasts 4 weeks. I use this time to switch them to a good diet, get them used to their new home, me and the new schedule and, most importantly, to keep them company while observing them closely so I can learn their body language and individual quirks. If they take the initiative to approach me, I respond (even if I get bit) but I never ask them for anything, not stepping up or anything. I think that allowing them to take the first step and to always give them the benefit of the doubt (in terms of biting) is the best way to establish a long term relationship of mutual trust and affection.

Also, I don't know at what distance you have placed the UV light source but, please, please, be careful with it. I know of two birds that have gone blind because of those stupid clamp lamps they sell for birds. I have both full spectrum and UV light in my birdroom (which, BTW, are on during all daylight hours) but they are in ceiling fixtures and there are no perches anywhere near them.

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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-04-2014, 09:17 AM


 
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My green cheek also can get to rough when over excited and will sometimes nip instead of taking a treat. I make an etetet sound at her. (I tried to mimic the angry sound my budgies make at each other when they are telling each other to back off... And it works!) she understands this sound means stop your nonsense..lol. Another thing I do with my greenie is to plop her on the floor for a few seconds when she nips... She wants to be on me, with me, the center of my attention and hates when I ignore her... It works wonders for adjusting her aditude! She is usually sweet when I step her up again. I agree with Daisy... Clicker training. Experiment with different treats... Millet, sunflower seed bits, safflower seed bits, hemp seeds, fruits etc... Find the one (or2) treats she can't live without and save them only for training treats... Start by clicking and dropping a treat in a dish from outside the cage.. Click-treat.. Every time you go by the cage. Then when ready progress to click and treat thru the bars from your fingers.. After you have this down pat with the bird start asking him/her to come over to you before click-treating. You can also use a stick (skewer, chopstick, straw etc) instead of asking him to come to you, get him to touch the stick. You can soon lead them anywhere with the stick by clicker training. He sounds to me a bird that has not learned boundaries, and just like a small child he is acting out. A lot of people will tell you not to react to the bite... I personally do not believe in that way of thinking... You cannot react dramatically to the bite, but I see nothing wrong with letting the bird know that he had crossed the line and that behavior is not acceptable... I tell my birds this message with my angry budgie sound and a stern no bite! They are very fast learners!
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-04-2014, 10:05 AM Thread Starter
 
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by catalinadee View Post
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The reason I mentioned target training, and by all means take it further and go into trick training, is because that definitely does help him burn off steam.
Thank you for your response. That was the reason for the use of millet.....to allow him to come to me when I sit down, which I thought would be the beginning of target training.
Quote:
If you can get his diet good, train him often, keep it up with the toys and spend quality time with him as you have been, I'm sure he will come around If he is flighted that is even better (you probably already said if he was or wasn't but if I scroll up now I will lose what I'm thinking haha) because you can work on recall with him. Poop that bird out and he will be much easier to get on with
He is flighted. I've never clipped any of birds. Letting him out of his cage is the beginning of pooping him out, which seemed to have calmed him yesterday.

Quote:
Again, I don't know if you said whether or not you were putting your hands in and around his cage but for the sake of your fingers I wouldn't risk it. That's the barrier he doesn't want you to cross. It's his safe zone and his comfort. It's also his territory. When he sees your hands on there he's thinking "do you mind!?"
I use my hands to give him millet and to replenish his water and seed cups. That's it. He doesn't react badly when I cover his cage at night, either. In fact, he peeks out at me as I'm doing it, greeking at me.
Quote:
and when you put them in to get him out, well, then that's gunna get you bitten!
I open the cage door and let him come out at will, and when he gets back onto the inside of the cage door after about 30 minutes or so, I close the door. I know from experience to not associate my hands (at this point) with getting him in or out of his cage, or anything else. It's done either with the perch stick or by letting him to it on his own. Slow and steady.
Quote:
I decided with all of my birds that I would let them come out on their own terms unless I absolutely had to get them out (for instance, an emergency vet trip). Birds love that respect you give them
I agree.

Quote:
How do you feel when you're hanging out with him? Are you nervous of getting bitten? If you show him that you're nervous, he will use that energy and again turn it into an unwanted behaviour. They can read us like books. Even if you're feeling low, or you're scared of him, act like you aren't. Once he knows that he doesn't threaten you he will most likely back down a little
I love spending time with him. No, I'm not afraid of getting bitten. He doesn't even bite hard enough to leave an indention. It's just a warning. The little fella could do damage, but he's not. I laugh at him when he clowns around as he's so amusing, even when he's acting up. He's so smart. I just want to make this transition as good for him as is possible. It's just this new irritation was new with him in contrast to how he was the first week or so. He's so excited to have me scritch his head, but just allows me to do it for a millisecond before he wants to groom me and seems so excited to do so. As I said, I've run out of hang nails to let him groom which seemed to satisfy him.

BTW, by playing the music instead of letting the TV go seems to be having an effect. He's not as restless this a.m. and is just talking to himself. I can hear his gravely little voice from this office. He and the budgies usually have a loud and competitive contest to see who can get the loudest. This a.m. it was totally absent. I'm guessing he was instigating it with the male budgie.
Again, thank you for your response. I know you answer many posts and can't keep track off them all.

Last edited by evefromtexas; 06-04-2014 at 10:08 AM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petiteoiseau View Post
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Also, I don't know at what distance you have placed the UV light source but, please, please, be careful with it. I know of two birds that have gone blind because of those stupid clamp lamps they sell for birds. I have both full spectrum and UV light in my birdroom (which, BTW, are on during all daylight hours) but they are in ceiling fixtures and there are no perches anywhere near them.
Thank you for your response.

Full-spectrum light is needed for certain hours of the day, not all day, according to research.
It is also very important to set your timer so that the light is on during the normally brightest time of day so as to not add to the total photoperiod your bird receives. (Example: If the light should be on 6 hours per day a good time period would be from 9AM to 3PM - thereby not lengthening the bird's photoperiod as would happen in parts of the country where the length of outdoor light period shortens dramatically during he winter months, like Minnesota where we live, if the light were to remain on after 5PM).

The following time lengths are current as of a conversation with Dr. Tammy Jenkins in September of 2003:

Most smaller birds (cockatiels, parakeets, lovebirds, canaries, finches, etc…): One to two hours per day maximum.

Most African Parrots (Greys, Poicephalus, and most likely, Vasa Parrots), Eclectus and Cockatoos: Four to Six Hours per day maximum.

All other birds (including all South American Parrots): Two to Four hours per day maximum.

http://www.parrotislandinc.com/articles/alight.htm

From the same study:
How we recommend using full spectrum lighting:

These lights should be placed so that the bulb is located within two feet of the bird. When the bird is beyond two feet distance from the light the effect of the bulb are greatly lessened. (NOTE: Be sure that the bulb and any electrical cords are always out of the reach of your bird!) These bulbs should only be used with a light timer. Having these lights go on or off at even slightly different times of the day could potentially cause abnormal reproductive behaviors in your bird. Some of these potential problems are: territorial aggression, compulsive egg laying and excessive release of sexual hormones and adrenaline which several avian veterinarians (including Dr. Jenkins) and myself have seen cause health problems for these birds due to toxicities caused by their over-release (see earlier description of the Hyderian Gland and the Circadian Clock). Both of these behaviors are best avoided with our companion birds. We wish to use this lighting for durations just long enough for the proper assimilation of nutrients, but not so long as to potentially cause problems. We suggest different amounts of time for these lights to be on based on the species of bird it is being used with. These recommended times have changed (lessened) since 1994 when we first began our observational study of full spectrum light usage with companion birds.

This is the schedule I've been using since I first started using UV/UB lighting in 2009.

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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-04-2014, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
 
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At any rate, I need to go. I have a bird waiting. And, other animals. Thanks to everyone for the replies. I don't have time to respond to everyone.
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-04-2014, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
 
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Talking Just a quick reply. Seems the problem was the TV

Since I've been playing the mood music (flutes, harps, etc.) this morning, Baby has not exhibited any restlessness or aggression, and as I said earlier......with he and the male budgie not getting into a screaming match this morning. Music does calm the savage beast. The budgies are quieter, too. I've used music in the past in relaxation therapy sessions. It does change brain chemistry.

He's back to his sweet self I saw the first few weeks. I let him out again this a.m. after our brief morning chat. No aggression shown. He explored all over the outside of his cage as I sat and watched. Then, when I noticed the budgies' light was not on, and as I was standing on my head to see why the budgies UV/UB light had not come on, I noticed he wasn't on the top or sides of his cage. Somehow, he's managed to get on the bottom storage area. http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Bird-Par...:X:RTQ:US:1123
And, then he was on the floor. As I didn't want him to get behind any furniture and he kept walking over the perch stick I had, I had to use a cup towel to pick him up. No complaints as I put him back on top of his cage. He climbed down again from the top of the cage to the top of his cage door and as I was talking to him about the car that had just sped by the window (he'd slicked down when that happened), he leaned over toward me. I leaned toward him. He groomed my eyebrow, and then the bridge of my nose and further down my nose. Then, he started taking my glasses off my face making little soft grunting sounds. I stopped him and told him he was being a silly little bird. He gave me such an intelligent look out of his eye.

Then, I returned to work on the budgie cage lights and noticed it was getting time for husband to come home for lunch and I didn't want him to startle, so again when he kept walking over the perch stick, I again used the cup towel.....this time to put him in the cage. (His reaction was amazing.) He again leaned toward me, greekin at me inside the cage. Totally calm.
He's an amazing, calm little bird. All this took place in about an hour's time. Guys, with the time schedule I have with caring for the other 12 animals (giving meds, feeding, cleaning, letting in/letting out on certain schedules so all can go outside at some time), I just don't have long periods of time in one stretch to spend with Baby. But.......he seems to be doing just OK with what we've got now, I'd say.

The secret (this time) was putting on soft music instead of the TV. He's not down at the bottom perch watching TV, either, as it's just the music channel playing. He's at the top perch, chewing his bill in contentment.
Problem solved.

Last edited by evefromtexas; 06-04-2014 at 01:00 PM.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-04-2014, 04:13 PM
 
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I am glad that you solved your problem and that it was actually so simple.
I am sorry that you were offended by my previous response but I answered based only upon what you said and you were not very clear about many things. You started off by telling me that he was rescued from a place which was bad for him and that you spoke to him several times a day in passing and that you ignored his screaming and that he watched TV other than the fact that you use a full spectrum light that was really the only things that you gave me to work with. And it was on those things that I based my answer. the only thing that I assumed was that you may not have had a lot of experience, and so I attempted to give you a little information about this type of bird.
It is difficult at times to know what to include in a post when you are looking for answers and even more difficult to give good accurate answers. I am sorry that you had a bad experience on another forum, but that is not my fault. I tried to give you an honest answer based upon the conditions that you described, a fact that you would realize if you go back and read you own posting, I am sorry that you chose to be offended instead.
Again I am glad that you found the answer to your problem and that it was such a simple one. I wish nothing but the best for your bird and you.
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-04-2014, 04:38 PM


 
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Originally Posted by evefromtexas View Post
Since I've been playing the mood music (flutes, harps, etc.) this morning, Baby has not exhibited any restlessness or aggression, and as I said earlier......with he and the male budgie not getting into a screaming match this morning. Music does calm the savage beast. The budgies are quieter, too. I've used music in the past in relaxation therapy sessions. It does change brain chemistry.

That's awesome. Now that I'm reading your post, I do vaguely remember reading somewhere that tv images and sounds might be overly stimulating--but I can't remember if it was for birds or kids .

Also, makes sense with the music, since nature always has a "soundtrack" playing and it's almost never quiet unless there is danger. I tend to keep the windows open in the summer, so my birds hear the outside sounds. But very interesting story.

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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-05-2014, 11:22 AM


 
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Originally Posted by evefromtexas View Post
Thank you for your response.

Full-spectrum light is needed for certain hours of the day, not all day, according to research.
It is also very important to set your timer so that the light is on during the normally brightest time of day so as to not add to the total photoperiod your bird receives. (Example: If the light should be on 6 hours per day a good time period would be from 9AM to 3PM - thereby not lengthening the bird's photoperiod as would happen in parts of the country where the length of outdoor light period shortens dramatically during he winter months, like Minnesota where we live, if the light were to remain on after 5PM).

The following time lengths are current as of a conversation with Dr. Tammy Jenkins in September of 2003:

Most smaller birds (cockatiels, parakeets, lovebirds, canaries, finches, etc…): One to two hours per day maximum.

Most African Parrots (Greys, Poicephalus, and most likely, Vasa Parrots), Eclectus and Cockatoos: Four to Six Hours per day maximum.

All other birds (including all South American Parrots): Two to Four hours per day maximum.

http://www.parrotislandinc.com/articles/alight.htm

From the same study:
How we recommend using full spectrum lighting:

These lights should be placed so that the bulb is located within two feet of the bird. When the bird is beyond two feet distance from the light the effect of the bulb are greatly lessened. (NOTE: Be sure that the bulb and any electrical cords are always out of the reach of your bird!) These bulbs should only be used with a light timer. Having these lights go on or off at even slightly different times of the day could potentially cause abnormal reproductive behaviors in your bird. Some of these potential problems are: territorial aggression, compulsive egg laying and excessive release of sexual hormones and adrenaline which several avian veterinarians (including Dr. Jenkins) and myself have seen cause health problems for these birds due to toxicities caused by their over-release (see earlier description of the Hyderian Gland and the Circadian Clock). Both of these behaviors are best avoided with our companion birds. We wish to use this lighting for durations just long enough for the proper assimilation of nutrients, but not so long as to potentially cause problems. We suggest different amounts of time for these lights to be on based on the species of bird it is being used with. These recommended times have changed (lessened) since 1994 when we first began our observational study of full spectrum light usage with companion birds.

This is the schedule I've been using since I first started using UV/UB lighting in 2009.

With all due respect, this is a 1996 article last updated in 2003 and that was a long time ago (we have learned 80% of what we know today about bird husbandry in the last ten years or so -I've kept birds for over 40 years and parrots for over 20). Lots of things have changed since then and I'll just mention the more important from the article:
- circadian cycles are not set by length of daylight but by the change in wavelength during twilight so, as long as you expose the bird to the full dawn and dusk, they entrain photorefractoriness perfectly attuned to the seasons.
- full spectrum lights don't all have UV regardless of the CRI but, even the ones that do would not allow the bird to produce enough vit D3 (CRI 90 + does not really mean UVA/B output but maybe it did when this was written, I don't know)
- the 'older' full spectrum lights were all of a high Ktemp (usually 6500 -bluer light) which bring birds into breeding condition and the reason why you could not have them on all day long but we now have Ktemps between 5000 and 5500 (I actually switch mine from lower to higher -resting to breeding season but I never use higher than 5500).

Hope this was of help to you.
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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-06-2014, 08:58 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by petiteoiseau View Post
With all due respect, this is a 1996 article last updated in 2003 and that was a long time ago (we have learned 80% of what we know today about bird husbandry in the last ten years or so -I've kept birds for over 40 years and parrots for over 20). Lots of things have changed since then and I'll just mention the more important from the article:
....
- the 'older' full spectrum lights were all of a high Ktemp (usually 6500 -bluer light) which bring birds into breeding condition and the reason why you could not have them on all day long but we now have Ktemps between 5000 and 5500 (I actually switch mine from lower to higher -resting to breeding season but I never use higher than 5500).

Hope this was of help to you.
All I can tell you is the every piece of literature I've read says to keep the lights w/n 18 inches of the birds, not at the top of the ceiling as you suggest.

To your point: Since this article was originally written in 1996, updated in 2001, and then again in 2003, if there were any other changes that needed to be done, I would assume it would have been done as well.

This article is still being passed around by other enthusiasts besides me.
http://forums.avianavenue.com/index....m-light.43822/

And, here's an article about the guy that contributed that article: https://companionparrotonline.com/Senegal_Terry.html

And, this: What is clear
is that too much UVB can be both dangerous and lethal
http://www.reptileuvinfo.com%2Fdocs%2Fvol3-issue3-collections-in-middle-east.pdf
(I can't get this pdf to post)
Just like people, too much UV lighting can also be harmful to your bird.

Also, I think you and I have had this same conversation some years ago on some forum.
At any rate, you and I have differing opinions on this. I can't find anywhere that it is suggested that the lights stay on all day. In fact, quite the opposite.

Can you give me some links?
BTW, like you, I've been involved with birds for a long, long time.........some 58 years now for me. Parrots since 1990. How long is that??

Last edited by evefromtexas; 06-06-2014 at 10:57 AM.
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