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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-07-2013, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
 
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Wrong forum but need help

Hi everyone ,

Sorry to invade the parrot forum as I only have a couple of budgies. I have tried the budgie forum but everyone there says they don't know. So I figured bigger birds- bigger issues and maybe you guys can help.
Trying to figure out how to deal with a budgie who seems to hate me and attack me the moment I get near the cage. And I mean attack. Trying to give water or food age flies at my arm claws me and then bites like there is no tomorrow peck peck peck. I have scratches and bite marks everywhere. I am relatively new to birds and love the other one who is like day and night. The aggresssive female has no fear seems to be very intelligent and curious exploring. Quite a character ( I had no idea birds had this kind of personality)
Is there a way to get her to if not like me to tolerate me or at least stop attacking me??
Any input would be great. Thanks
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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-07-2013, 09:36 AM
 
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How old is she?
How long have you had her for?
Is she in breeding condition and trying to protect her mate or her cage?
How big is the cage these two are in?
Did you have one before the other or did they come home together?
Where did you get them from?

I would suggest spending as much time as you can near their cage. It is going to take a while, but you must be persistent. Talk to her, make slow motions near the cage, read a book out loud, put your hand near the cage (but not close enough to get bit). She has to realize that you are not a threat, and if she lunges at you and you back down then she thinks she is winning. I don't want you to put yourself in danger of getting bit, but you have to basically desensitize her through repetition and having your presence known. Try feeding them by putting a millet sprig through the cage bars. Try NOT to go inside the cage as much as possible for a while, unless to do the things you have to do like changing food/water and cleaning the bottom.
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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-07-2013, 10:02 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thank you so much!! I think you are right she is protecting the cage and her mate. He is not allowed near me anymore. I had the "nice" guy first who was so shy and scared and quiet. Wouldn't do much or say peep for a couple of weeks then we learned to step up and such it was great. The more I read the more I felt he needed a mate. Well, when I brought her home she screeched very annoyed in her little box and the moment she fit out it is a completely different bird. Squawked ate hung upside down all in the first hour. They are in an inside small Avery lots of room for two budgies. I had her maybe two month. She is a bossy little thing. When I put millet in through the bars she comes shooting at me ignoring the millet and trying to get my fingers. This bird has no fear!!! I have never seen anything like it. I think she is less than a year old. Thanks for your help. Can they get over this?
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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-07-2013, 10:53 AM
 
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Make changes. Move the cage. Move out the toys put in all new toys.
Or if you can try giving her a cage of her own and keep it changed out regularly with new toys at least new to her it can be the same toys just ones she has not seen in a while.
Oh and sometimes it helps if you can move the cage lower to the ground so she does not think she is top dog.
Good luck

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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-07-2013, 03:07 PM
 
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I do think it is something she can get over, but it's just going to take a while. Stand your ground, I know it sounds funny because you are so big compared to her, but just try to be consistent, stick the millet through the bars but make sure your fingers are not close enough to get bit! keep talking to her and move things around like Angie said. She is a stubborn little lady! Maybe she is holding a grudge against you for putting her in a box
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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-07-2013, 04:31 PM



 
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Firstly, budgies ARE parrots so please don't feel like you can't post on here Secondly, I would try to get her to eat millet through the cage bars, then work on target training inside of the cage. You could then work on it outside of the cage however don't put your hands in unless necessary. You will find that she is a lot easier if she can come out by herself
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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-08-2013, 11:18 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks everyone for your input. I am trying patience and bribery. Two days ago she attacks me - so yesterday every twenty minutes ( day ) off I sat beside the cage sometimes tacking with them - sometimes just hanging doing other stuff close by.
Day two, I put milet on my flat hand and inside Avery. He came right away nibbling gently on my fingers and enjoying the milet yesterday " she would have cone down lithe a fury on me if u tried that. Today she watched us at the end joined in eating millet ( not biting me at all) that's a break through in itself. She got ticked at the end as I was pulling my arm out to leave she puffed up and got aggressive????
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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-09-2013, 12:11 PM


 
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Sounds like cage aggresion.
She should be more amiable away from the cage area.

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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-09-2013, 11:51 PM
 
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I always clipped their wings first and worked them with a pair of light gloves. Getting them first to stay on your finger and then rolling it backwards to make them step up to your other index finger. Daily training and persistance is a must. Pulling your finger back when they go to bite is what gives them the idea that they can bite to stay away and gain confidence that they are in control. They can bite that glove all they want to just keep your skin out of the way! I could usually have them calmed enough after a week or so to be able to place them on their backs and stay until I picked them up. I have done that with Parakeets to Amazons and Cockatoos.
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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-10-2013, 02:54 AM



 
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I prefer not to clip their wings. Taking away their flight gives them no way of getting away from you thus you're doing to get bitten by a frightened bird. Use positive re-enforcement and leave them flighted so they have a good relationship with you. Forcing them on to you will give you a fear based relationship. I used to clip my birds and I'd never do it again


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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-10-2013, 08:19 AM
 
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I also clip wings when taming a bird. Then depending on the birds attitude I let them grow back. My Quakers and the IRN stay clipped. They get to aggressive if left to fly.

My Budgie is clipped (barely she can still fly just not out of my reach) I most likely well let hers grow back. Once she learns to come to her name.

My ciaques are flighted but ciaques prefer not to fly at least mine do. lol My amazon is flighted too but rarely flies except to get to a peanut. LOL

So for me it depends on the bird. Only you can make the choice that is right for you and your bird.

In your case I think I light trimming (about 4 feathers) may help a lot.

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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-10-2013, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks everyone. Interesting about clipping or bit clipping I never given it any thought and really not sure how I feel about it. I can't imagine doing it myself as I got no clue what to do and the concept of taking that bird anywhere is far out there right now. Crazy bird!!
Question: territorial, dominance etc. I am a dog trainer very familiar with the concept except in the dog world I lead and guide the pack. With a bird beside standing there let her bite the snot out of me feels wrong but for now I do as I would have a clue how to train her and certainly don't want to hurt her or hate me more. Isn't that allowing her and teaching her she can do whatever she wants with me????
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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-10-2013, 03:13 PM
 
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I would not allow her to Just bite. I would do some of the suggestions to stop the biting.
Good luck

Yuki my budgie. Pixie budgie. Blue IRN Goose
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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-10-2013, 03:54 PM



 
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Just be persistent. Training can take a long, long time but in the end it all pays off
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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-10-2013, 11:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catalinadee View Post
I prefer not to clip their wings. Taking away their flight gives them no way of getting away from you thus you're doing to get bitten by a frightened bird. Use positive re-enforcement and leave them flighted so they have a good relationship with you. Forcing them on to you will give you a fear based relationship. I used to clip my birds and I'd never do it again


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Your opinion. I've never had a bird give me kisses and cuddle with me or rub up against me out of fear. Forcing and breaking their will is one thing but being firm and not letting them be like a spoiled child is another.
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post #16 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-11-2013, 02:44 AM
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Keep it nice guys

Wing clipping is always controversial. Here in the UK it is highly frowned upon by the majority where as somewhere like the USA it is much more widely practiced.

It is proven that there are health and psychological complications that can come from clipping birds particularly long term or babies who have no yet feldged, but that being said with proper training, good diet and plenty of exercise many clipped birds can still live long happy lives. The rest of it is all down to personal opinion of whether clipping a bird is akin to declawing a cat or debarking a dog and if it is really justified - which in the UK are both banned, hence why a lot of people this end will have strong opinions on the matter

Let's leave it at that and all stay happy little bird huggers!

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post #17 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-11-2013, 03:43 AM



 
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I never said I disagreed. I just simply said that I personally preferred to keep my birds flighted because I have noticed a difference when 'taming' a completely wild bird that they are far happier if they are able to come to your on their own terms. If I respect their space and take my time I end up with one happy bird who is a lot more confident. I used to clip them because I was told by many people that clipped birds were far safer. I also used to clip them because everybody told me that it would help in the taming process. I have found that if I clip a completely wild bird and get it to step up, it will, but it won't be happy. It will most likely fall to the floor and step up so you can take him/her from A to B. But other times they will back away and won't be having any of it. If I leave them, to come on their own terms they tend to be more confident in themselves, even if it does take a long, long time with some birds. I have a cockatiel that I consider clipping every day. I raised him myself because the parent birds were so lousy but he always had the opportunity to fly. He was never clipped and still hasn't been. But he does fly like an absolute fool to put it in the nicest way. He doesn't know how to land... or how to slow down. He never learnt this and he's a year old now. I consider clipping him because I'm scared that if he continues to crash into anything he's going to get himself killed. But clipping to tame down a bird I simply won't do any more. I could understand more so if you wanted an already tame bird to be more confident around you, but if I was to say clip my Amazon, who is very unfriendly, I would probably end up with an even worse nervous wreck than the bird I have now. I also worry about all of the negative things that come with having a clipped bird. Obesity, falling and breaking their keel bone and such. My message wasn't meant to come across as harsh, I was on my phone and I was trying to type it through the mass of adverts that come with the app so I was getting fed up of trying to write long messages sorry! But yes we do all have our own opinions and I do respect what other people believe, that's fine. But I like to offer other methods of training based on my personal experiences

The birds that I tame down don't end up like spoiled kids. They're simply allowed to be a bird and if they want to hang out with me that's fine. They get toys, they're out of their cage all day long (or in aviaries), are part of a flock and they eat great food. I don't sit and baby them all day. My lesser sulphur crested cockatoo was clearly previously spoiled and he has a lot of issues because of it, but that seems to be the cockatoo way but I don't sit there and hug him every time he screams murder
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post #18 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-11-2013, 06:31 AM
 
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Its different with each household and in some cases each bird.

Yuki my budgie. Pixie budgie. Blue IRN Goose
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post #19 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-11-2013, 09:25 AM


 
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In the UK we have the Animal Welfare Act 2006, it clearly states that all animals must be 'free to express natural behaviours'. Clipping a bird is not allowing to do this, flying is a natural behaviour.

You will never convince me that clipping a bird purely for the selfish reason of 'taming' it quicker is ever the right thing to do.
I have taken in various birds that had been clipped their whole lives, you want to know how many of those ever learnt to fly again properly? NONE. Their muscle wastage was so severe from years of being clipped and denied their most natural of behaviours that they never managed to build the muscles back up again. They also did not live their full lifespans and were no where near as healthy as my fully flighted birds.
The only good thing for those birds was when they did come to me and were finally able to express themselves they lived in my aviary, with others of their kind, with good food and toys to play with, plenty of ladders and platforms to get around, some of those birds came to me in their own time, others much preferred the company of the other birds.

We don't cut the legs off dogs to stop them running away from us so why is it deemed so acceptable to mutilate the beautiful wings of birds so we force that bird to spend time with us because we are far too impatient to actually step back and build a bond of trust and mutual respect?

As a side note all the birds in my aviary at current, including all the rescues I took on who had been mistreated, they all come to me when they feel like it, they will fly over to me to play around in my pockets or my hood, some of them just enjoy riding around on my shoulder for a bit.

My rescued Amazon Parrot was petrified when he came to me, the first time I let him out the cage he came out and went straight back in again, it took him a good 6 months to settle in, and yet now he flies across the room to me, not because he is forced to, because he WANTS to.

Then of course you need to factor in the psycological damage you are doing to that bird by taking away its ability to fly out of danger, plus the danger you are putting that bird in by doing so, when a bird is spooked what does it do? It flies away, when it can't fly away you end up stressing it out more and it is far more likely to injure itself or indeed have something else injure it. The amount of times I have heard of people stepping on/ sitting on their birds and killing them, and it's only possible because the bird was clipped and unable to get away.

Then the issues you get with the self mutilation that occurs, I have seen this first hand and it is not nice to witness and it could have totally been avoided by not clipping.

The only time a bird should be clipped in my opinion is when there is a medical reason, or when that bird is such a danger to everyone around it is the only thing to do, and I mean when all the options have been used up.

Flying is the best form of exercise for a bird so you are in effect making your bird unhealthy by taking that away from them.

There is no greater reward than having a bird choose of it's own free will that it wants to come to you and spend time with you.

A flighted bird is by no means 'spoilt'.
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post #20 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-11-2013, 11:09 AM
 
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I am not selfish. I am practical.

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Last edited by Topaz; 07-11-2013 at 12:05 PM.
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