[nanay]

We had been told by the 4-H trainers that Jamal, our ten year old standard poodle, was often showing signs of pain when Cannary was training him this year. He is such an obedient fellow. He will do whatever you ask, even if it hurts. He is stoic, so he doesn't show pain unless his pain is severe. He absolutely loves 4-H. My older son Kevin had trained him during his last two years of 4-H, and then my younger son, Paul, had him in 4-H for five years. A friend's daughter's dog had died during the 4-H season the next year, and she had shown Jamal to complete that 4-H year. Jamal had then had a year out of 4-H, but when Cannary started, he was in again. Jamal loves 4-H, and he was happy to start again, but we don't want him to do things that cause him pain.

Cannary very much wanted to remain in the dog project, but I didn't want another dog right now. I was not certain I ever wanted another dog, but I had decided that I would probably have to get Cannary another dog in a couple of years if she wanted to continue in that project. We also have a fourteen year old dachshund. I had expected that dog would be gone before we got another dog, but when Jamal was showing so much pain, I couldn't see enrolling him in 4-H another year, no matter how much he loves it.

Jamal has been a great 4-H dog, and I wanted Cannary to have as good a chance of doing well with a new dog as the boys had with Jamal. I've had four standard poodles during my life, three males and one female. My relatives have had miniatures, but to me the standards have a personality I like better. Two of our standards were small standards, and two were large standards, but I didn't see any differences in their personalities. Cannary, however, wanted a toy or a miniature, and I was reluctant to consider that.

Cannary and I looked on the Internet for something we both could live with. She wanted either a red or an apricot toy or miniature male, and I wanted one with a personality similar to my standards.

Our local Petsmart was having an adoption tent fair, so I decided to go there just to look. One of the 4-H trainers had suggested we look at Havanese instead of toy or miniature poodles, and while I wasn't convinced, they had some "designer" dogs, so I thought it wouldn't hurt to look.

When we arrived, we saw that they had a crate with the picture of a four year old apricot miniature male poodle, but the crate was empty. We looked at the other cages, but Cannary wasn't interested in anything else. I thought, "At least she realizes she doesn't want a Havanese." Then, a gal walked past with the miniature poodle. We thought she had decided to adopt him, but she kept looking around. Finally, I told Cannary to go ask her if she was going to adopt him. The gal said she was trying to decide if she wanted him or not, but if Cannary really wanted him, she would take a different dog. We told the gal to pick the dog she really wanted. This gal had arrived first, but she went with her other choice. We later learned from a worker at the shelter that she had been looking at both dogs for three days. She took the other dog she had been considering, and we were able to bring home the miniature poodle. (The other dog she was looking at was a brindle boxer. I don't know if she took the boxer so that both dogs would have a home, but it worked out that way.)

They were calling him Abercrombe, but Cannary has renamed him Teddy. The thing that impresses me the most about Teddy is that his personality is very, very similar to Jamal's. So far, he is even more like Jamal and the other two male standards I have had over the years than he is like the female standard I had. Don't get me wrong, the female was a great dog, too, but she was just different from the males. Now, I do have to admit that my relatives have had many miniature poodle males over the years, and all of them had good personalities. I have not known many poodle females of any size. However, I have met a lot of miniatures and toys that I have not liked.

One thing that I really like about this dog is that he is past the puppy stage. I was NOT looking forward to that.

Well, we just measured him, and if we measured correctly he is 17" tall, so he is an oversized mini after all. He IS the smallest poodle I've ever had, but I can still say he is a standard if I want to. :rofl:

The shelter workers said they tell everyone who adopts from them that they save the lives of three dogs. The first life they save is the life of the dog they adopt, but they also allow this shelter to take in one more dog, and since this shelter takes dogs from animal control, and animal control has to euthanize dogs when they get too full, they leave one more space for a dog that would have had to have been euthanized at animal control. Now, I know that is a bit of a romantic way to look at it, but it can make people feel good, too. That particular animal control has to euthanize 58% of all dogs it takes in, and a much larger percentage of cats.

I still can't post pictures. I really have to work on that.

 

[Jenny]

Wow - that sounds like it worked out for the best, for everyone involved. I'm not a big poodle fan, but there's a certain intelligence gleaming behind the eyes of the standards that intrigues me (and giants? Are there bigger ones? xD The really big poodles are the ones that get my atention). Generally, the minis just look like ankle-biting yippers to me lol.

I do have to say, for a little dog, I do like the havanese. When I worked at the pet shop, we had one or two of them in and that remind me of Scottish Terriers with softer, silkier hair

 

[Kate]

The Grandmother of my dogs was 1/2 Miniature Poodle, the other half was Terrier and they have proved to be great dogs. Lady was the most beautiful dog with a brilliant nature. I remember one year when I was hand raising and had a Lutino Indian Ringneck being one of them. I had fed her and put her back in the brooder and was preparing to do some other babies when the Ringneck jumped out of the brooder and landed on the floor. Lady pushed the baby with her nose to get her between her front legs (Lady was lying on the floor at the time) and snuggled the little baby in there and put her head down over her to keep her warm until I could retrieve her. It was so sweet and not a sign of aggression to the baby. One of her grandsons has the same sort of nature. When his mum had another litter of puppies he would get in with them after they were fed and clean them and when I am hand raising (especially the bigger birds like Corella's) he will lick them clean after I have fed them.

Lady was such an intelligent little girl with a beautiful nature and her kids and grandkids are also very intelligent. The other part of the kids breeding is Border Collie/Kelpie/Cairn Terrier (just like Toto from the Wizard of Oz). All very smart medium sized dogs.

I am sure you will be happy with your smaller poodle. I think people look at the different clips that they do with poodles and think they are silly, woosey little dogs when in actual fact the clips were done for a specific purpose. They were water hunting type of dogs and the clips were done so that the long hair was kept over the vital organs and the joints to help protect them from the cold water. The hair was left longer over the eye area to protect them from brambles and bushes that they ran through. They are far from silly and woosey.

 

[nanay]

Jenny,
I like scotties, so if that is the personality of a havanese, I'm sure I would have liked one. Oh, well, I like everything I have, anyway. My mother-in-law had a scottie, and it was great.

Jamal, my standard, weighs 75 pounds. I don't think he would qualify as a really big standard, but he isn't a small standard either. It really hurts when he jumps on your feet, though, and he has a way of doing that. We had a 130 pound Great Pyrennese years ago, and even if she stepped on you, which she almost never did, it did not hurt. I REALLY wanted another standard, but this is a much better fit for both Cannary and our living space, since we do still have Jamal and I hope he lives a long time. I would have never believed a miniature would behave this much like a standard, but this fellow acts as if he took behavior lessons from Jamal.

It took Teddy all of 24 hours to become playful. He was spinning around like a top by this afternoon. The gal at the rescue who said she was afraid he was too laid back to do well in 4-H must not have seen this side of him, but I suspect he didn't act that way because he felt lost there. He seems to know he is home now.

I just can't help but think someone is out there looking for him. He is too well socialized and trained not to have been loved, and he was not matted at all when he was picked up by animal control. The only thing the vet noticed was that he was a bit underweight.

I suppose it is possible his owner became incapacitated, but usually people like that surrender their dogs. The dogs don't end up being picked up off of the streets. He is too sweet and was in too good a condition for me to believe he was dumped. I just can't stop wondering if someone is looking for him.

 

[Jenny]

Jenny,
I like scotties, so if that is the personality of a havanese, I'm sure I would have liked one. Oh, well, I like everything I have, anyway. My mother-in-law had a scottie, and it was great.

They're a little less stubborn and dominant than scotties, from what I saw, but I only played with Havanese puppies, no adults :thumbsup: My Grandparent's have always had scotties, ever since I can remember. They're great dogs, just a little pushy for my tastes Great to visit with, not to live with

 

[Abby]

What is 4-H exactly?

 

[nanay]

4-H is a club for young people here in the US. In Indiana, a child can join from 3rd grade through 12th grade. The requirements may be different in other states, but 4-H is probably in all states.

Members join the club, and they also pick projects to do. The county has a fair. Here the fair is in July. At the fair the projects are exhibited for competition. Most states, if not all, also have a state fair. Exhibitors are either selected to exhibit at the state fair, or they are simply allowed to sign up to exhibit at the state fair.

My sons and I were all in 4-H for ten years. Now my daughter is in her second year of 4-H. She is in grade 4.

Dog Obedience happens to be one of the projects that all of us have taken. In this project the member trains a dog to do obedience exercises just like or very similar to AKC obedience exercises. The member and dog teams then compete to see which teams perform the exercises in a manner closest to the standards for those exercises. Showmanship is also an available competition for members showing dogs, and both my older son and my daughter chose to compete in that. In that class you show off your dog's build, although the build of the dog is not judged. Instead, the judge considers the member's ability to show the dog's build to its best advantage. My younger son also competed in agility, which consists of maneuvering a series of obstacles. My daughter wants to start competing in agility this year. First year members are not allowed to compete in agility, so as a second year member this will be her first opportunity. There is also a rally competition, which is kind of in between obedience and agility, which my daughter wants to partipate in, too. Rally is a new competition and was not available when the rest of us were in 4-H.

In our county, there is also a project called Critter Companions. My daughter is enrolled in that project and exhibits her birds there. In that project, the pet itself is not judged, but the member's knowledge of the care of the pet is.

 

[nanay]

I thought I would give an update regarding Teddy.

It seems he is very smart and will probably learn his obedience exercises well, but I do now believe he was dumped.

Noone ever claimed him, but beyond that, he has developed a very annoying yapping habbit, which I suspect he had in his former home. I tried all sorts of positive reinforcement methods, but the other night at 2:00 am, after having been up because of his yapping every half hour that night, I finally gave in and showed him a rolled up newpaper instead. It was my suspicion that he had been hit in his former home because he is afraid of hands. Well, the sight of the newpaper shut him up. I feel horrible for having resorted to that, but it worked and is a better alternative than having him surgically debarked or returning him to the shelter. :shrug:

I realize that punishment does not work with wild animals, such as parrots, because, like babies, they just don't understand it. However, I also know that it is necessary to reserve this option for children beyond a certain age, because they do understand it, and they sometimes just plain need it. I reasoned that I would give it a try, because I thought it was likely what Teddy was used to, and therefore it might work. It did.

Dr. Cook, my vet, always says that the biggest problem with punishment is that it is rewarding to the person meeting out the punishment because it works. I guess this is true in this case, but the situtation had become unbearable.

My only defense here is that I am the one who punished the dog, not my daughter. Therefore, any fall out in bad relationship with Teddy should be between Teddy and I and not with Teddy and my daughter.

I'm going to ask the vet about it when I take Ashlynn and Shira in soon for check ups. I hope I can also come up with some positive reinforcement things to help with this issue, but, honestly, the dog can't keep up that yapping all night long. I work, my son works, and my daughter goes to school. Additionally, we have neighbors.

Well, at least the dog has been quiet most of the night since I did this.

 

[Abby]

I've heard of 4-H, the woman who gives me horseback riding lessons talks about it.

 

[Jenny]

I'm sorry to hear about the yapping problem... you do the 4-H training, so I would assume it wouldn't be a problem of pent up energy? My friend trains dogs and she said that's the most common cause for yapping and other behaviors. Perhaps he had that problem in a former home and developed the habit and now can't break it? Try giving him a long walk before bed to tire him out, or get him worked up playing and maybe he'll sleep longer? Or give him a touch of children's benedryl to get him to sleep? Not the best solution, but it doesn't psychologically harm him nor does it physically harm him either?

 

[nanay]

Jenny,
I believe there is a problem with the fact that we are now having a very cold spell and he has been inside more than normal. When it is not too cold, we have the dogs in an outside kennel while we are at work/school. We have had to keep them inside because it has been too cold to leave them outside together. When we are gone, he has to stay in his kennel. He is right beside the other dogs, but they are not getting time to play together. I think the change in that schedule worked to mess up his days and nights. I think he thinks he should be outside playing when it is time to sleep now. He barks because he wants to go outside, then he realizes it is dark and cold and he barks because he wants to come back inside.

I've had Cannary work with him extra in the evenings. That has helped, too.

Please understand that I did not actually hit him. I just showed him the rolled up newspaper - but I'm sure someone has hit him in the past, and I'm sure that introduced some fear for him toward me. Jamal and Dudley, having never been hit in the past, just looked at me like - What you got there to read?

 

[Jenny]

Nanay, I understand. I never even thought you would have hit him - that's not you. It's hard to work with an animal with a history like that. We had an umbrella too who had been physically abused, anything like a broom would terrify her and even when we went to pet her, if we put our hands up and startled her, she'd cower :/ They get over it, it just takes time